Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
December 20, 2014, 02:55:01 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you had an Online Subscription: It will not be stolen by your mailman or your neighbor who also may be into buses.
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Remote mounted gen radiator ###pics added  (Read 4994 times)
Dave Siegel
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 481


Stand for something, or you'll fall for anything!


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2011, 07:47:38 AM »

We have limited headroom in our bay compartments but needed a larger gen set. The enclosed picture is how I set up the air flow around the gen set. I mounted the Mustang radiator in the hole that was originally used by the cooling system on the bus. I created a tunnel to create the flow into the gen set side of the bay. I got a squirrel cage fan 120v from an a/c tear out and wired the fan so that it is on the high (fastest setting) The fan came from a 3 ton a/c /heating unit. It sucks air in from the circular part of the fan and blows i out to the road from the square section of the fan. Works great and is quiet.
Logged

Dave & Jan Siegel    1948 GMC  "Silversides"
               Naples, Florida
   Dave is Host to the "Help Assist Pages"
  (Free roadside help for Bus Conversions)
         www.help-assist-list.com
wal1809
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1339




Ignore
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2011, 08:37:10 AM »

Well this is what I got finished before the mosquitoes took over.
Logged

1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
www.snakebreaker.com
wal1809
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1339




Ignore
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2011, 04:47:19 PM »

Thank you Clifford!!! I got home today and wired in the squirrel cage.  Fired it up and let the gen get warm.  Took her out for a quick 20 mile trial run.  Sitting still the gen stays at 170 degrees.  At 70 miles per hour for 20 miles it never got over 175 degrees, I think.  The guage does not have that many marked numbers.  To shirten the story it barely climbed at all.  So thank you all and especially Clifford.  Big project, glad it is done!!
Logged

1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
www.snakebreaker.com
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 13127




Ignore
« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2011, 06:28:57 AM »

Good for you Wayne now just be sure you have a switch to control it for winter time use

good luck
Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
blank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1929




Ignore
« Reply #34 on: August 03, 2011, 08:49:04 AM »

  If you were going to run an AC fan motor, it would be best to wire it for 240 volts off the generator so your pulling off both legs equally.

  Wal, if you need to restrict airflow to load the motor, you either have too large a motor, or too small of a fan/blower housing. If its a belt drive you can often change pulley sizes to speed up or slow down the fan to get the motor close to full load,but the most efficient is always going to be a direct drive "if" its loaded properly.

  Clifford has mentioned a few times seeing an MCI with the rad blowers replaced with one of the AirCon blower motors. I recall a while back a few comments that the rad fans were drawing some 50 HP off the engine, based primarily on the size of the belt. I believe it might only have a belt that size more for durability than that it actually took 50 HP to run the blowers. The rad blowers dont look to be any larger than the AC fans. Ive seen some large HP squirrel cage fans, for example a 20 HP squirrel cage fan is BIG. lol. A 50 HP one would likely fill the entire engine bay of most any Bus.
Logged
JohnEd
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4571




Ignore
« Reply #35 on: August 03, 2011, 10:21:51 AM »

  If you were going to run an AC fan motor, it would be best to wire it for 240 volts off the generator so your pulling off both legs equally.

  Wal, if you need to restrict airflow to load the motor, you either have too large a motor, or too small of a fan/blower housing. If its a belt drive you can often change pulley sizes to speed up or slow down the fan to get the motor close to full load,but the most efficient is always going to be a direct drive "if" its loaded properly.

  Clifford has mentioned a few times seeing an MCI with the rad blowers replaced with one of the AirCon blower motors. I recall a while back a few comments that the rad fans were drawing some 50 HP off the engine, based primarily on the size of the belt. I believe it might only have a belt that size more for durability than that it actually took 50 HP to run the blowers. The rad blowers don't look to be any larger than the AC fans. Ive seen some large HP squirrel cage fans, for example a 20 HP squirrel cage fan is BIG. lol. A 50 HP one would likely fill the entire engine bay of most any Bus.

You could balance your load between the phases by using a step down transformer from 220 to 120 and use that to drive the fan.  There is a loss to pay but if balance is the most important factor then....

Will that fan motor accept a speed control?  The slower the air moves the more efficient the fan will be and in theory, at least, the genny should run moire efficiently.

It is true that every answer begets at least 2 additional questions.

John
Logged

"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
wal1809
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1339




Ignore
« Reply #36 on: August 03, 2011, 10:48:41 AM »

Good for you Wayne now just be sure you have a switch to control it for winter time use

good luck

Hello CLifford,  It didn't come with a switch and I am certainly no electrical guru.  There is a blue red and black wire.  The guy told me to use the black in some and red or blue in the winter, that it changes the speed of the motor.
Logged

1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
www.snakebreaker.com
wal1809
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1339




Ignore
« Reply #37 on: August 03, 2011, 10:51:59 AM »

  If you were going to run an AC fan motor, it would be best to wire it for 240 volts off the generator so your pulling off both legs equally.
Wal, if you need to restrict airflow to load the motor, you either have too large a motor, or too small of a fan/blower housing. If its a belt drive you can often change pulley sizes to speed up or slow down the fan to get the motor close to full load,but the most efficient is always going to be a direct drive "if" its loaded properly.
Clifford has mentioned a few times seeing an MCI with the rad blowers replaced with one of the AirCon blower motors. I recall a while back a few comments that the rad fans were drawing some 50 HP off the engine, based primarily on the size of the belt. I believe it might only have a belt that size more for durability than that it actually took 50 HP to run the blowers. The rad blowers dont look to be any larger than the AC fans. Ive seen some large HP squirrel cage fans, for example a 20 HP squirrel cage fan is BIG. lol. A 50 HP one would likely fill the entire engine bay of most any Bus.
Are you coming to the Texas rally?  If you are maybe we can take a minute to look at it.  When it comes to electricity you could have written that in chinese and I would probably recieved the same amount information in my head.  Once I get it, I got it, but I still got to to get it.

Logged

1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
www.snakebreaker.com
JohnEd
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4571




Ignore
« Reply #38 on: August 03, 2011, 11:18:32 AM »

Good for you Wayne now just be sure you have a switch to control it for winter time use

good luck

Hello CLifford,  It didn't come with a switch and I am certainly no electrical guru.  There is a blue red and black wire.  The guy told me to use the black in some and red or blue in the winter, that it changes the speed of the motor.

Wal,

I called about your motor hook-up.  I learned:  There is no industry standard color code.  There is a probable color code if you know the mfr of the furnace that the motor came out of.  It can be a 110 or a 220.  Black is likely to be connected to the neutral phase and that is white in house wiring.....i know, black to white...go figure.  The "hot wire in household is usually black" and that wire will get connected to either the red or blue.  Red will be either low speed or high and the blue will be the other.  You can connect the black to the red OR the blue but you cannot connect the red and blue together.  If you disconnect the blower impeller and loosen the mounting bolts the motor will slide out.  Under the clamp that holds the motor there will be a wiring diagram or list of connections.

Nick should have this same info and be able to help when you get the data under the motor clamp.  If you have a mfr name on the blower....Lennox...Comfort Air, etc. then let me know and I can make more calls.

Did you get a email/pm from me?

John
Logged

"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 13127




Ignore
« Reply #39 on: August 03, 2011, 11:45:08 AM »

A old swamp cooler switch works good I'll check around here and see what I can find for you 

Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
blank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1929




Ignore
« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2011, 08:51:20 PM »


Are you coming to the Texas rally?  If you are maybe we can take a minute to look at it.  When it comes to electricity you could have written that in chinese and I would probably recieved the same amount information in my head.  Once I get it, I got it, but I still got to to get it.

  I didnt mean to insinuate that I had AC blower fans, my bus is currently a stripped shell, but completely stock including the road air/heat, radiator blower, etc., awaiting the master plan. We had two kids weddings this year, and now my Dads health is giving us trouble, and its been HOT. Im still a Yankee, and 110 degrees every day makes me want to stay in the house, lol. I have a lot of ideas about what I want to do, but money and time are a bit scarce.

  What we are saying about balanced loads refers to the generator. Most generators in RV's are putting out 120 volts on a single leg, or black (hot) wire. Some generators have whats called a 12 wire head, and can be re configurated to put out several different voltages as well as 3 phase. They can be configigured to put out 240 volts on two legs, so you can have an electrical panel like you have in your house. That allows you to connect 120 loads and 240 loads in the same panel. However, the loads on the generator should be closely balanced between the two legs. As you start drawing more power off one leg, the generator starts running hot. And heat is its enemy. All 240 volt loads would by their nature be balanced and not present any problem. The problem would arise from operating too many 120 volt loads on one leg. Most electric motors can be configured to operate on either 120 or 240 volts, but are more efficient on 240 volts.

  The biggest issue im considering is that most campgrounds only have 120 volt 30 amp outlets, and 240 volt motors or appliances will be useless in that situation.
Logged
JohnEd
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4571




Ignore
« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2011, 09:11:38 PM »


Are you coming to the Texas rally?  If you are maybe we can take a minute to look at it.  When it comes to electricity you could have written that in chinese and I would probably recieved the same amount information in my head.  Once I get it, I got it, but I still got to to get it.

  I didnt mean to insinuate that I had AC blower fans, my bus is currently a stripped shell, but completely stock including the road air/heat, radiator blower, etc., awaiting the master plan. We had two kids weddings this year, and now my Dads health is giving us trouble, and its been HOT. Im still a Yankee, and 110 degrees every day makes me want to stay in the house, lol. I have a lot of ideas about what I want to do, but money and time are a bit scarce.

  What we are saying about balanced loads refers to the generator. Most generators in RV's are putting out 120 volts on a single leg, or black (hot) wire. Some generators have whats called a 12 wire head, and can be re configurated to put out several different voltages as well as 3 phase. They can be configigured to put out 240 volts on two legs, so you can have an electrical panel like you have in your house. That allows you to connect 120 loads and 240 loads in the same panel. However, the loads on the generator should be closely balanced between the two legs. As you start drawing more power off one leg, the generator starts running hot. And heat is its enemy. All 240 volt loads would by their nature be balanced and not present any problem. The problem would arise from operating too many 120 volt loads on one leg. Most electric motors can be configured to operate on either 120 or 240 volts, but are more efficient on 240 volts.

  The biggest issue im considering is that most campgrounds only have 120 volt 30 amp outlets, and 240 volt motors or appliances will be useless in that situation.


Now, lest we forget:  The generator cooling fan would only be needed when the genny is running and if the genny is running we will have the 220VAC.  I couldn't resist....where is self control when we need it.  Thanks Art. Grin

John
Logged

"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
blank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1929




Ignore
« Reply #42 on: August 03, 2011, 09:30:54 PM »



Now, lest we forget:  The generator cooling fan would only be needed when the genny is running and if the genny is running we will have the 220VAC.  I couldn't resist....where is self control when we need it.  Thanks Art. Grin

John

  The Gen fan was not the only thing I was thinking of powering with 240, but yeah, you could have 240 if the Gen is running.
Logged
wal1809
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1339




Ignore
« Reply #43 on: August 04, 2011, 05:32:26 AM »

I was thinking about putting a switch on the side of the black radiator box to turn the fan off and on.  But the outlet is right there where the land line power cord is located.  I can just unplug the fan and then go plug the bus into the land power.
Logged

1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
www.snakebreaker.com
thomasinnv
Derrick Thomas
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 751


I may be nuts, but only for buses


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2011, 08:11:23 AM »

I would be afraid I'd forget to plug it in once when needed.
Logged

There are three kinds of people in this world....those that make things happen, those that watch things happen, and those that just wonder what the heck is happening. Which one are you?

1977 MCI Crusader MC-8
8V71N/740
95% converted (they're never really done, are they?)
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!