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Author Topic: oil temp at 250  (Read 2920 times)
David Anderson
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« on: July 31, 2011, 08:26:32 PM »

I made the climb from Artesia NM to Cloudcroft today and my oil temp on the 6v92 climbed to 250 through most of the climb.  That seems really high to me.  Water temp never went above 195.  I kept the rpms up high as best I could usually in the 1600~1900 range.  My tranny temp never went above 180.  I'm not sure how the coolant is divided between the oil and tranny cooler, but the tranny never goes up except during hard retarder usage, which of course the oil temp falls because of no load on the engine.

The oil temp on a flat at 70 mph is generally about 220.  My temp probe is in the bottom of the pan.

Should I be concerned or is this normal?

David
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« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2011, 09:20:15 PM »

I would think it normal for your oil temp to rise under a heavy long pull, how much I can't say though. Someone else will chime in I am sure. If the oil temp is higher than it should be first thing to look at would be the oil level. Low oil level will make it go up.
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« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2011, 09:32:45 PM »

David, we made a climb approx. 6 miles varying from 3 to 6% grade with the toad as usual and although the coolant temp never climbed and the trans temp went up maybe 15* or so, the oil temp climbed substantially. However, it settled right back down once we crested the hill. I don't remember how high it went to, but it concerned me enough at the time to keep a very close eye on it. HTH Will
Also, the oil level was right on the full mark during the entire trip and the oil has less than 2500 miles on it.
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Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2011, 09:36:59 PM »

You need to find out what temperature your brand and weight of oil starts to break down at. From the dim recesses of my mind i think i recall reading something long ago that most oil is ok up to something like 350-400 degrees. Huh  Anybody else have better knowledge about this?
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« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2011, 09:44:56 PM »

Just thought of a guy on another forum that i go to that should know the answer, he is a retired oil engineer. He is on the east coast but i saw he was still up and online so maybe i will have an answer in a few minutes if he sees my post. Grin
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« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2011, 01:38:27 AM »

They make and sell a lot of "engine oil coolers" that mount in front of the rad like the trans cooler and AC condenser.  The problem is that engine oil needs to get up to the engine op temp to evap the water.  The aux oil coolers are usually installed using a modified bolt on base for the oil filter.  The full flow oil gets routed to the cooler through flex hoses.  My oil in my Dodge 440 gets up to 250+ on a hard pull and it doesn't cool down all that fast either.

John
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« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2011, 08:19:35 AM »

Take the oil temp gauge off and throw it out, LOL. I don't know the exact degree of heat that oil will break down at, but I would not worry about 250F.

JC
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JC
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« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2011, 09:05:30 AM »

I'd consider pulling an oil analysis for a few bucks and see how the oil is standing up to your driving style.  You might consider switching to an oil that has a high flash point and good additive package for those times with you are really " working it "

Bill in KS 
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luvrbus
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« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2011, 09:59:46 AM »

It is not a good idea to heat oil for a long period over the flash point which most 40w is around 270*

good luck
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« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2011, 10:30:19 AM »

My Chevron dealer said the flash point is just under 500 degrees F.  He also said that 210 or 220 was permissible on a sustained hard pull but he would expect it to be below 210.  240 F, he said, was MAX and if I saw 270 and that was verified I should be looking for some serious failure.....low oil, oil to water heat exchanger plugged....something.  He also said that the permissible engine oil temp was a spec promulgated by the Mfr......DD... and that oil was formulated to meet that spec.  Dunno.  The correct answer seems to be to stay below 220F.

Any body out there have a DD engine manual?

John
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« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2011, 10:44:42 AM »

Yea 475* F is right for Delo 100 40W my jug has 256 C what you get when buy Delo in Mexico lol really doesn't mean that much anyway when the oil gets over 300 degrees in a 2 stroke it will use so much the fresh oil you are dumping in to it will keep it cool lol they don't like hot oil or hot fuel.
To answer your question David the oil temp should not go above 240* a DDEC 92 series will shutdown at 239 degrees F if the temperature stays there for over 30 seconds I think the 60 series will also shutdown at 239 degrees

good luck
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« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2011, 12:09:13 PM »

Yea 475* F is right for Delo 100 40W my jug has 256 C what you get when buy Delo in Mexico lol really doesn't mean that much anyway when the oil gets over 300 degrees in a 2 stroke it will use so much the fresh oil you are dumping in to it will keep it cool lol they don't like hot oil or hot fuel.
To answer your question David the oil temp should not go above 240* a DDEC 92 series will shutdown at 239 degrees F if the temperature stays there for over 30 seconds I think the 60 series will also shutdown at 239 degrees

good luck

Now that's what I call an answer.
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
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« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2011, 12:15:00 PM »

I thought that the engine shut off system is connected to the coolant temperature. Doesn't the oil run hotter than the coolant? So if the coolant is at say 200F, the oil could be at 250F or more?

JC
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JC
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« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2011, 12:32:26 PM »

For example: Petro-Canada's Dieseltonic (that is their CF2, 40W for 2 stroke Detroits) has a Flash Point of 251C, 484F, and a Auto Ignition temp of 283C, 547F. I cannot find in their litterature what 250F or more would do to the quality of that oil. But I thought, maybe wrongly, that engine oil often runs hotter than the coolant?

JC
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JC
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luvrbus
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« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2011, 01:17:43 PM »

JC the safe operating range of the oil temperature on a 92 series is 215* to 230* that is degrees only one place in the DD bible you find that section 4.2 page 3 under the Thermatic oil filter not saying it doesn't get hotter just DD wants it between 215* and 230* and the 92 series DDEC 111 and above have a high oil temperature shut down 239*

good luck
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« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2011, 01:18:55 PM »

JC,

Only from watching my gauges I can say that you are correct.  My engine oil on any engine I have ever had gauges on runs hotter than the water except in the winter.  In the winter it takes maybe a half hour to come up to the coolant temp.  During that time the oil is accumulating water.  If I never came up to temp I would have sludge for oil in a short time.  Given your location up north in Canada I would think this is a familiar topic to you.  In Pa I changed my oil monthly in the winter cause I could never get the engine hot on short shopping trips and such.  But hotter is relative.  The point my Chevron dealer made was that sustained 240F was too high and hitting 270, even for a short time, was detrimental.  He thought 210 or 220 for sustained operation was ideal cause the additives would not be depleted at an accelerated rate and the water contaminant would be quickly dissipated.   I didn't check this guys credential over the phone but he seemed credible.  Now if DDEC shuts down the engine at 270, as Clifford says, and the engine Mfr sets that sort of limit, according to the oil rep, then 270 is the danger point regardless of the engine make as far as I am concerned and if my "norm" is above 220 I should be looking for a "fix".

But, you are right.


John  
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
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« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2011, 01:24:52 PM »

239* JohnEd

good luck
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« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2011, 01:31:36 PM »

239....that what I said.  Go back and read it again.....  see? LOL LOL LOL

Uh....UMMM....I was just trying to see if you were paying attention.

Did you locate any of those fans I was asking about?  Now that I know you are up and kick'n.  LOL

John
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The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
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« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2011, 01:48:18 PM »

JohnEd you are welcome to fans if you come to Quartzsite I will deliver but packing and shipping not going to happen lol

good luck
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« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2011, 03:29:42 PM »

Clifford,

Thanks.  Quartz it is then.  I'll have my GPS to locate you.  I should have plenty of room after I drop off the insulation for Val.  If you have 4 I can use them....any size.


John

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The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
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David Anderson
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« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2011, 08:27:45 AM »

We left Cloudcroft and are now in Durango.  I noticed that even on the 16 mile decent from Cloudcroft to Alamogordo with the engine coasting the  temperature never drops below 210.  Seems like it would assume the 170~180 temp of the coolant water.  Under a moderate load the temp stays around 220~230 all the time.  In climbs it goes to 240.  Hard climbs in low gears 250+.  I'm not sure what's wrong if anything,  but I watch it closely and of course worry.  Does it matter that my temp probe is in the oil pan?  Should it be in a different place?

David
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« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2011, 08:37:28 AM »

On a double oil cooler on the DD the transmission will heat the oil what temps are you getting on the transmission ? short periods of high oil temp won't hurt you David same with transmissions even on a DDEC they need to have a high temp reading for a few minutes before they do their thing

good luck
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Just Dallas
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« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2011, 10:20:26 AM »

David, I personally would be looking at voltage drop between your engine and the dash. Somethin' ain't kosher in New Mexico if your water temp is 195°, and the engine oil is still reading those high temps, especially if the auto transmission is reading lower than the engine oil temp.

Do yourself a favor..... add a couple of mechanical oil temp gauges and bring them up trough a hole in the rear of the bus to a convenient place in whatever setup you have back there.

A long time ago I was worried because after about 2 hours of driving, uphill, downhill, on the flats or in the city, my coolant temp would climb to 240° and stay there... even after shutting the bus down for a couple of hours. When I started the engine back up, after 15 minutes, it was right back at 240°.
Fast Fred finally gave me a hint..... the voltage regulator was set wrong. After running for a period of time, the VR would go up to about 14.8v @ 160a. The sender was meant to be accurate at 13.8 or less and the extra voltage would cause all manor of havoc in the system.

Good luck with your problem I hope I've helped just a little bit.

PS: If your oil temp is really that high, find a stopping place while the temp is high, shut down the engine without a cool down, grab the wife's candy thermometer and hold it against the oil pan with a pot holder for a few minutes. That will tell you if the oil temp is really what the gauge says, even though it will lose a few degrees by the time you get back there.

DF
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« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2011, 10:38:37 AM »

That could be it Dallas he is having a over charging problem forgot all about that he posted that on our Eagles board a couple of days ago

good luck
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thomasinnv
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« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2011, 02:13:49 PM »


PS: If your oil temp is really that high, find a stopping place while the temp is high, shut down the engine without a cool down, grab the wife's candy thermometer and hold it against the oil pan with a pot holder for a few minutes. That will tell you if the oil temp is really what the gauge says, even though it will lose a few degrees by the time you get back there.

DF

Or a half second shot with the infra red thermometer that every busnut should have would do just fine.
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David Anderson
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« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2011, 02:24:24 PM »

I checked with an IR gun in San Antonio NM.  it was 205 and the dash gauge was 210.  
My voltage on the Albuquerque to Durango leg was normal 13.5 which is right in the middle of the range on the gauge.  What puzzles me is that my normal operating oil temp is always about 230.  Seems it should be in the 210 range, but I don't know what is normal other than book specs 200~240.  

We will climb Wolf Creek Pass later on in the week.  I'll check with the IR gun on the pan, and oil cooler when we get to the top.   That will give me some more references to discuss.

Below was my view out my window for 3 weeks while in Cloudcroft.  Nice.  72 highs, 48 lows.  Beats the heck out of south Texas right now.

David
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luvrbus
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« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2011, 02:36:50 PM »

David, depending on the turbo housing and injectors 200-250 is ok for a 6v92 and the reading at the oil pan will be higher than at the galley were the DDEC reads by as much as 15 degrees fwiw


good luck
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« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2011, 07:36:09 PM »

When I stopped at the top of Wolf Creek Pass, I checked temps with the IR gun.
Oil cooler water jacket was 170.  Oil pan was 255.  The dash temp showed 250 when I stopped at the top.  My water temp on the dash gauge was 195 street side bank, 190 curb side bank. 

Clifford, it seems my problem may be perceived in my mind, and I probably don't have a problem at all, I hope.

David
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« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2011, 07:54:47 PM »

I think you are right and I am happy for ya. Grin


John
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The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
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—Pla
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« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2011, 05:29:36 AM »

I am jealous!  We spent a week every year 30 miles north of Pagosa Springs, Co.   We would fly fish the streams up there.  The weather is so nice this time of year.  Anyway, how was did the bus do on the climbs?  I have a 6v92 as well and I am certainly going to have to learn how to climb them before too long.
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David Anderson
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« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2011, 11:36:50 AM »

I am jealous!  We spent a week every year 30 miles north of Pagosa Springs, Co.   We would fly fish the streams up there.  The weather is so nice this time of year.  Anyway, how was did the bus do on the climbs?  I have a 6v92 as well and I am certainly going to have to learn how to climb them before too long.

I've climbed Wolf Creek Pass at least a dozen times in my Eagle.  It's 1st gear all the way up and about 22~25mph for me.  The descent eastbound is pretty easy.  I don't like the westbound descent, however.  I have to use lots of brakes on that one and stop at the switchback to cool them off.  The retarder really heats up on the west descent.  I disconnect the towed when I descend to the west and let my wife drive it down.  It's one less thing the coach has to keep slowed down.

David
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