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Author Topic: Fuel pump question  (Read 1574 times)
wal1809
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« on: August 07, 2011, 02:41:25 PM »

I got to thinking as I am tearing way farther into the engine than I dreamed I would have to.  The front of that motor is naked.  Anyhow back to the thinking part.  I was thinking since I am arse deep in that motor and the pump is sitting on the work bench, should I have it re-built?  Should I just go get a new one?  How much do they run ect?  Where would I even find one?

This is why I am thinking!!  I can see there are weep holes in the neck of the pump.  When I took off the fuel lines I was trying to see if one had a leak by shooting air in one end and putting my thumb over the other end.  That didn't have the results I was thinking.  So I never really found the leak.  I am really doing all this work on the assumption it was either the right rack line or the crossover line.  I couldn't track it down with all the parts in front of it and now that they are off I can't start it.

I really really don't want to put this back together with new lines only to find I have to go back in there.  What I could see was a pulley wheel below where the right side fuel lines connect to the block.  A lot of fuel was being slung upwards by that pulley.  On the fuel line going to that area was a lot of fuel dripping off, almost a constant stream.  That is why I assume it was the line but it could have been a lot of fuel slinging up to the line and dripping off.  Could fuel have been coming out of a weephole in the pump, traveling across the toip of the block, hitting that pulley and slinging?  Is there anything else around there that could be leaking?  Let's put our heads together maybe we can find something before I have to pull all that junk off the front again.

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bevans6
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« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2011, 06:02:06 PM »

It could be a cracked fitting, a simple loose connection, a bad fuel pump.  The lines rarely leak in the middle unless there is significant and readily visible damage, usually at the ends and connections.  I'd just look closely at all the pieces you take off, be meticulous about reassembly with the correct pipe thread sealant, assemble all of the flared fittings dry, get it all clean and do the best you can.  If you have some hose that you really feel is suspect, make a new piece of hose, get some new fittings from your local hydraulic hose supplier, and see what happens.  The balance wheel on the RH cam can indeed throw anything all over and make it impossible to trace leaks.  I would personally put a new, not rebuilt, fuel pump on, but that's just me.  I'm more than happy to take the front off my engine again, but I'll be damned if I do it because I put a bad part back on when I knew it should have been changed.  Penny wise, pound foolish is the old saying that come  to mind.

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
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wal1809
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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2011, 06:22:24 PM »

some of the hoses have wear to the wire inside but I could not find the leak.  It is hard to tell though as there is so much crud on the lines.  I just figured it would be easier to tell.  I think your right about the pump and replacement.  I will call DD tomorrow and see if they have one.  If the pump was bad would it leak out of those weep holes like a car water pump leaks water when it is bad?

I just went back to the barn and looked.  I am trying to find anything to indicate a leak.  I am also trying to find anythng other than what I have taken off that could possibly leak fuel.
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luvrbus
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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2011, 06:32:26 PM »

Wayne, maybe a good idea for you to replace the pump but if you do and you running the Mickey D fuel change it over to the Hi-Capacity fuel pump better pump anyway it has 3/8 wide gears compered to the standard 1/4 in on the standard pump you will like it better same pump as a 8v92 DDEC uses cost about 170 bucks at most DD dealers
Piping locations are a little different but no biggie it has the pressure ports on the sides not the front has 2 just plug the one you don't use,or you can use a port for each head that's the way I do it

good luck

 
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 06:58:15 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2011, 11:23:07 AM »

some of the hoses have wear to the wire inside but I could not find the leak.  It is hard to tell though as there is so much crud on the lines. 


  If there were ever a good reason for keeping an engine clean, you just hit upon it. Any kind of machinery we own, if we own it long enough we will encounter leaks and mechanical problems. Clean engines are much easir to work on, as well as determine where a leak is occuring. It can be almost impossible when its all black and covered with goo. They also run cooler when they are clean.
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Len Silva
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« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2011, 01:13:54 PM »

I wonder if after you cleaned up the engine, you could use fluorescent dye to find a fuel (or oil) leak.
http://www.amazon.com/Tracer-Products-TP34000601-Fluorescent-Detection/dp/B000JFHNTM
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wal1809
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« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2011, 01:16:13 PM »

I do believe my new policy is goin to be power wash the inside of the engine compartment everytime I wash the outside.  I can buy those engine foam spray cleaner cans for $2.00 at Walmart.  Buy a dozen or more and just have them on the shelf ready to go.

I fastened some diamnond tread aluminium on the floor where the old A?C unit was located and made that into storage.  It really snazzed it up vs. the exposed original tubing.  That is where I placed the heated veg oil tank and there is still enough room for more storage.  Well it gets just as dirty as the engine compartment.  It was nice to see that shiney aluminum after power washing.
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wal1809
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« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2011, 01:23:45 PM »

I wonder if after you cleaned up the engine, you could use fluorescent dye to find a fuel (or oil) leak.
http://www.amazon.com/Tracer-Products-TP34000601-Fluorescent-Detection/dp/B000JFHNTM

I don't believe that would be the case.  The bulk of the fuel is slinging off of the harmonic balancer right underneath the right side head.  It is slinging it from top to bottom and side to side in the engine compartment.  Even if I did I would have to take all those componants back off to see what was going on, leak wise.
For the life of me I swear it is coming from one or both of the lines headd to the right side rack and dripping onto the harmonic balancer and getting slung right back up to where it came from.  I will look again for any indication of where it was coming from when I get home.  Now one of the brass compression elbows did have the orange thread sealer and white teflon tape sealer on it.  It has been my experience the white tape isn't worth snot with WVO.
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1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
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wal1809
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« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2011, 01:27:08 PM »

Oh and BTW what happened to this country?  I am on the outskirts of the 3rd largest metroplex in the nation.  I spent all morning looking for a chemical rated hose to replace the old.  Nothing doing.  I talked to a bunch of folks and nobody had what I was looking for.  I finally ordered a 15 foot roll online from greasecar.  That means I won't be traveling to my next dog training session in Aubry in the bus.  It is Excursion and hotel time. Angry Cry  I really hate paying for hotels and fuel!!!!
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Len Silva
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« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2011, 01:49:09 PM »

Here is a place in Florida that has every hose you can imagine, many of them in stock.
http://www.goodyearrubberproducts.com/

I think this might be the same or a similar company in Texas.
http://www.texasrubbersupply.com/index.html

When you are looking for something like hose or tubing, search under "Industrial Supply" rather than Automotive.  I have found the counter folks at these places to be most helpful, often suggesting a solution that I had not considered.
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bevans6
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« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2011, 02:09:58 PM »

You don't need fancy hose, plain old fuel line is fine (not the Walmart kind, real fuel line).  I buy mine at the Aeroquip store, along with the ends, and assemble it at home. 
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
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1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
luvrbus
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« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2011, 02:23:51 PM »

Wayne, National Hose Supply in Pasadena on S Richie I  believe around 2000 block number will have any type hose ever made been there for years I never found a hose those guys could not match or make, you see  those engines with steel lines for the cross over from the factory PITA to install but they work.
I have used S/S and steel before 

good luck
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 02:32:08 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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wal1809
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« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2011, 04:09:17 PM »

There are a hundred different hose supplies here but not one of them carries viton 5/16 100 psi fuel hose.  I was on the internet and telephone for the first 5 hours of my day and no luck.  I had to order it from a bio diesel supply company.  On their websight they have Goodyear fuel hose.  I called Goodyear and they gaveme all the Houston Distributor tele numbers.  They never heard of Viton.  I knew I was going nowhere when the sales people would question what "Vitron" was used for. Grin

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1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
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belfert
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« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2011, 04:26:23 PM »

When you are looking for something like hose or tubing, search under "Industrial Supply" rather than Automotive.  I have found the counter folks at these places to be most helpful, often suggesting a solution that I had not considered.

One of the coolant hoses in my bus apparently came off a roll or was a meter long instead of a yard long.  I searched high and low for a replacement hose for a week as everything was too short.  I went to an industrial hose supply place locally and they sold me some sort of hose used for milking cows.  It is still working fine four years later.
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luvrbus
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« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2011, 04:49:12 PM »

This hard to believe a hose house in Houston doesn't have that hose I called Aron at the small hose shop here at Ft Mohave he has it in 1/4,5/16 and 3/8 sizes seems like the aerial spray planes use that stuff on their spray rigs.
That stuff is pricey for a small hose  I must say
I thought it might be for the water here lol

good luck
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 04:52:09 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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wal1809
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« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2011, 05:09:55 PM »

Sure is pricey!!  $9.75 a foot on ebay.  OUCHHHH  I never would have though about the crop dusters.  I live in a strip of woods along the San Bernanrd river.  On both sides though are corn, milo and cotton fields.  Them dern croppers use my house as a landmark to get from their airfield refill stations to the crops to the west as I am the last house of a string along the river.  I used to cuss them when I worked nights and slept days.  They have no mufflers and they would buzz right over the house.  I swear I could hit them with a sling shot if I tried.  Fortunately I went to day shift and didn't have to drive over to the airfield to get my arse whooped for getting agitated at a pilot.
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2011, 07:38:27 PM »

Part of the problem is that you may be using the wrong description for the hose you want when you go to a general distributor.  It has been quite a few years since I retired from Gates, but I don't recall that we ever used Viton in any fuel hose.  There are lots of good synthetic rubber type materials that will handle almost any type of fuel.

Viton was used in chemical hoses.  It is very hard to make a good Viton hose (adhesion issues) and the raw material is very expensive.

Apparently the bio fuel must be hard on typical premium fuel hoses.  That surprises me.  However, I will defer to the experts and they have obviously done their homework and found a chemical hose construction that works well.

One of the reasons that typical sales folks - even technical sale folks are not able to talk about materials is the the industry has really gone away from talking about materials. They "hide" behind terms like "tube meets RMA (Class A)  High Oil Resistance".  Drives me crazy!!!  Part of the reason is that it lets hose manufacturers get creative with great materials and not tell competitors know what they are doing, and of course, it lets them put the minimal material in a product - works both ways.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
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