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Author Topic: restart with empty fuel lines???  (Read 3704 times)
wal1809
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« on: August 15, 2011, 05:58:13 PM »

Has anyone done a restart with empty fuel lines.  My chem hose should be in this week and I will get the engine back together.  I thought about taking a syringe and filling the lines with fuel as best I could.  Any suggestions would be great.
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John316
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« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2011, 06:15:03 PM »

Wayne,

I think you are asking if you will lose prime, if you start without fuel in your lines. Am I at all close? If so, I imagine that the answer to your question is yes. You will have trouble (but I am NO 2 stroke yoda like Clifford is! Keep that in mind).

I pulled up a thread on priming, for another fellow (over on the MCI board http://mcibustalk.com/bbs/index.php ), but I figured I would drop it over here too. http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=20794.0

HTH

John
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 06:18:38 PM by John316 » Logged

MCI 1995 DL3. DD S60 with a Allison B500.
wal1809
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« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2011, 06:30:25 PM »

That is exaclty what I needed to see.  I am replacing all the fuel lines on the engine.  The garden sprayer is genius!!!  I was going to use vacuum to draw fluid when all the while I have a sprayer sitting ont he top shelf in the barn.  Like my father used to say "Son keep it simple and stupid, you're halfway there anyway". Grin

I know once she hits it is all down hill.  But getting her to hit can be a trick.
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Mex-Busnut
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« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2011, 07:32:11 PM »

You might also check out this post from our forums:

http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=20794.msg227070#msg227070
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Dr. Steve, San Juan del Río, Querétaro, Mexico, North America, Planet Earth, Milky Way.
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100 miles North West of Mexico City, Mexico. 6,800 feet altitude.
wal1809
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« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2011, 03:45:26 AM »

Thank you Mex.  I am on it.  Now if I get the new chemical hose in the mail today I will be off to the races.  I for the life of me cannot figure out why I didn't pay the overnight rate.  Saving $30 in overnight rates cost me $150 in fuel and $62 for a hotel.  Come on UPS!!!
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TomC
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« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2011, 07:39:55 AM »

I watched Don Fairchild prime up my engine after replacing the crossover fuel line.  He used an electric fuel pump AFTER the engine fuel pump (so not to blow out the seals on the engine fuel pump).  Then he disconnected each section of fuel line and filled the fuel line by hand that was before the engine fuel pump.  Granted he had to do this about 5 times, but at least the engine fuel pump was still intact.  Takes patience and time, but once done, engine runs.  Good Luck, TomC
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bevans6
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« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2011, 08:07:24 AM »

Tom, are you saying  that the electric pump pulled fuel through the engine pump to fill the filters, etc, or that the electric pump was used to fill the main filter, the heads and the discharge line?

I have to do a dry start of my engine soon - I have installed an low pressure electric pump in the main fuel line prior to the strainer filter.  It is basically in parallel to the fuel line shut-off valve.  My idea, since the fuel system will be completely dry, is to use the pump to pull fuel out of the tank and fill the strainer (top off actually, I will fill it before I install it, with the input hose from the strainer to the fuel pump off so that I see fuel all the way up to the pump.  Then I will switch connections around and use the pump to fill the heads and the discharge hose back to the tank pumping through the main filter but not through the engine pump.  Two steps in other works, and prefilling everything.  The final step will be to reconnect and crank the engine with the fuel off lever on the governor so that the engine pump can pull fuel in and gain fuel pressure with the electric pump (which is only an 8 psi pump) pushing fuel to the engine pump.  I can't see why this won't work just fine.

Your thoughts?
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luvrbus
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« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2011, 08:50:04 AM »

DD sold a priming kit for years they are no longer sold but are easy to build they had a quick disconnect on the secondary filter pumped fuel from a can let run for 2 minutes fire it up all there was to it the fuel not used went back to the tank.
You are not going to hurt the DD fuel pump a 65 lb pump with priming with a electric pump now 100lbs of air and fuel will do harm.
You guys make this priming harder than it needs to be IMO it really easy to do

good luck

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Van
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« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2011, 09:13:08 AM »

Maybe I should put that set up on film, my Electric pump has been flawless for 2+ years thus far with no worries, thanks Clifford! Wink When I first brought our bird home, lost a fuel pump in Amarillo due to a collapsed supply line, I mean the drive shaft was sheared due to over heating  Huh I had all my tools, along with a new Pump, but no way to get primed back up, lets just say I don't ever want to have to call S&S or WW to ever have to assist with priming the engine... ever again, and now I won't.  Grin All the best!
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Michael Mc
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« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2011, 10:55:15 AM »

Why could you not disconnect the fuel line as close to the rail as possible, stick an air hose in the neck of the fuel tank (sealed with a rag) and push the fuel thru with just enough pressure to push it, but not enough to hurt the fuel pump?  When the fuel comes out at the engine, the whole system would be full at that point.  Am I missing something?

Mike
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JohnEd
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« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2011, 11:31:32 AM »


You guys make this priming harder than it needs to be IMO it really easy to do

good luck

I thought this was all handled.  The garden sprayer idea is genius but I thought it found application on "other people's rigs" only.  Ours would use Clifford's suggestion of the NAPA electric fuel pump AT THE TANK.  That would be the electric pump with the built in check valve AND that free flowed when turned OFF.  That allowed bleeding up to the input of the fuel pump by cracking the inlet fitting on the engine pump.  As I recall, that would allow filling the fuel filters "in place" without touching fuel.  $30(?) for the pump plus a toggle switch.  Problem solved forever.....I thought.

Question:  Will that low pressure pump push the fuel through the engine pump and out the "spill' line and back to the tank?  Are different make pumps....well different....in that regard?  Can a piece of flex hose be put together that would "jumper" around the engine pump so fuel would be pushed thru the engine fuel lines and out the spill?

I would still fab and carry a garden sprayer and carry it for those "other guys".  Neither of the "cheapo" low pressure pumps I installed 20 years ago has failed and I only accumulated 20 plus K miles in that time....but still.  I carry two spare pumps and a fist full of filters.  One of my spares is configured so I can empty a tank or transfer from one tank to the other.  That pump has piushed about a hundred gallons and I think I am still within the "useful" life window.

But really,  What about pushing fuel past the engine pump.  And, if I got fuel that far wouldn't the engine pump charge all the engine lines with fuel?  I thought the lost prime problem" was associated with the engine pump not being able to suck the fuel thru empty filters or pull the fuel from the tank.
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Van
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« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2011, 11:39:51 AM »

John, Our set up is simply installed inline right before the primary filter.
here's our set up
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John316
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« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2011, 11:43:17 AM »

LOL, Van. Won't work. Sorry, pal.

You wanna know why? Too simple. Too easy. And it takes the mystery out of priming. Nice try Grin
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Van
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« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2011, 12:10:11 PM »

You wanna know the funniest thing? Grin to show how well it works, I mistakenly put a 24V pump in it Shocked Shocked( just realized it moments ago when I took the picture Embarrassed)and it works well! Now I gotta go wring the salesmans neck, and get a 12v one before someone says that the 24V will never work on my bus Tongue Grin Grin
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 12:21:40 PM by van » Logged

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wal1809
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« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2011, 01:31:20 PM »

I like the pump sprayer idea, becuase I have one sitting there doing nothing.  The reason I asked the original question is I didn't know if I could prime while the lines were still disconected from the second filter.  I didn't know if I could push fuel through the pump and the racks.  Once I geet fuel to the engine it will go.  I have primed before but with WVO on the WVO side only.  If there is air in the lines it shutters for a second and then purrs.
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1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
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