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Author Topic: restart with empty fuel lines???  (Read 3651 times)
luvrbus
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« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2011, 05:59:28 PM »

I always liked the pump just for the convenience purposes carrying a gal of fuel or trying to siphon from the tank for enough to fill the new filters on the road wasn't my gig or using ATF to try and prime one,
I've never used the sprayer method should work ok,but it is sure nice just to flip a switch at night  

good luck
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 06:04:04 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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Van
Billy Van Hagen
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« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2011, 06:05:54 PM »

I hate the pump type, I might be swayed if the sprayer had an electric pump on it ( got a bad back Grin)instead Wink.
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« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2011, 06:09:06 PM »

It's something to put on the list since I have the sprayer setup for now.  The E3073 seems to be a replacement used for Caddy, Chevy, and Olds.  E8131, as Van's is, is also an Airtex number with specs similar to the one Brian posted.  Here's a chart of Airtex pump specs.  It would seem that the best way to do this would be to install it near the tank to have a backup for the fuel line air leak scenario.  Thanks

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:xbkrDNOb4PMJ:www.airtexproducts.com/TSB/TSB-0108-01_ATX.pdf+airtex+e8131&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESi9LwqNFoMX7AAe9KxyDZL1AQGJyC9ibyoVN1bnOZ_Gt5cRnuUKk6KjazNxggAgMBRUeRIeeFsZuk84zoi9BgasmtUDV4MQnsrpjE3_uzcYgpJ-jVyqTY_LXAoGRDadCaOxUoio&sig=AHIEtbRdlrpjjfmofanzslYiSGl6hoVtwQ
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lostagain
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« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2011, 06:17:58 PM »

I do agree that an inline electric pump would be nicer than having to fill filters in the middle of the night. One of these days, I will get one and install it.

JC
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JC
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bevans6
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« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2011, 07:09:43 PM »

I have two pumps, as mentioned.  Reason - I lost the first one in my shop.  When I bought the second one, I took it out and put it on a handy shelf.  On top of the first one that I lost.   I had forgotten that it was in a handy white box to make it easy to put on a shelf and store for later...   Now I have two.  I installed, or started to install,  one today.  I said - "Why do I only have one pump, I know I have two".  Two hours later I found the first pump, right where it started, on the shelf.  Sometimes I think I am a sad, sad man.  But, on the other hand, I have a spare pump.  If I can ever find it again. 

This is all, sadly, true.

Brian
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« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2011, 07:09:20 AM »

Brian, is that the pump from Princess Auto? If so, do you install it inline with the fuel flowing trough it all the time? Or do you make a bypass with a valve? Post a picture when it is done if you can. Thanks.

JC
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JC
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bevans6
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« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2011, 07:36:04 AM »

Van and Clifford say installing it in line works fine.  I am going to go ahead with my parallel system, since I already bought all the fittings and hooked it up that way, but it will be easy to test in-line vs not when it's done and the engine is running.

It is the Princess Auto pump.  I have two of the 24 volt pumps and one 12 volt one that I use for various things about the shop.  I will bet dollars to donuts that the only difference between the two is the label and the output fittings - the 12 volt develops 5 - 9 psi and the 24 volt one develops 10 - 14 psi, exactly what you would expect from the same pump with twice the voltage.  The 12 volt one has 1/8 npt fittings and the 24 volt one has 1/4 npt fittings.

The writing that is glared out says "UL Listed 6F96  AU2635" on both pumps.

Brian
« Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 07:38:35 AM by bevans6 » Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
Van
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« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2011, 07:49:37 AM »

Brian, did they come with an inline filter also? Just curious, the photo of mine that I posted earlier is not that clear, but do see the identical label on yours.  Wink

    Van
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luvrbus
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« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2011, 07:53:44 AM »

They come in 1/8,1/4 and 3/8 fittings I buy the the 3/8 but a 1/4 will work

good luck
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bevans6
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« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2011, 08:03:32 AM »

No inline filter unless it's hidden behind the fittings somewhere.

I do see a problem with how I have plumbed mine at this stage, though.  I put it in parallel with the main fuel shutoff tap going into the strainer filter.  Since it obviously is a flow through pump (you can blow through it easily) if I shut my tap off the DD pump will just pull through the electric pump.  I shall now completely disassemble the whole mess that I built yesterday, and go buy yet more fittings.   Oh well, I feel like Brian Belfert is rubbing off on me.   Wink
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
TedsBUSted
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« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2011, 08:53:58 PM »

. . . I will bet dollars to donuts that the only difference between the two is the label and the output fittings - the 12 volt develops 5 - 9 psi and the 24 volt one develops 10 - 14 psi, exactly what you would expect from the same pump with twice the voltage.  


Bevans6, I don't think the 12v and 24v pumps are the same. I've tried it, and at least with my trial I found that the 12v pumps would run noticeably faster and hotter on 24v and were short lived that way. Although they'd probably last forever if used just as priming pumps.

Obviously a lot of Bus Nuts have had proven success with the in-line electric pumps.
But... I'm not so sure that every pump is up to the task of delivering adequete volume for all applications. It's something that should be checked per installation. For example, some engines need a lot of fuel flow, almost  a gallon per minute, and in extreme cold it could be difficult for the little pumps to deliver, or to pass through, the needed volume.  

Anyway, here's my favorite bypass plumbing technique:


The yellow arrows show normal flow and the white arrows show primer flow.
I'm sure the 24 volt pump is basically the same model that's posted throughout this thread. I'll bet this one is ten years old now. It seems like they're purchased under the Master brand name, I'll try to post a part number in a day or two.

Ted
« Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 09:01:02 PM by TedsBUSted » Logged

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bevans6
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« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2011, 05:02:09 AM »

I did a search on the UL listing number and came up with Airtex as the actual manufacturer of the pump.  It's rated at 35 gallons per hour.  How many gallons per hour does a 8V-71 use?  I get around 12 GPH at 60 mph maximum, I think.  But that ignores the return flow for cooling.

http://www.airtexproducts.com/TSB/TSB-0108-01_ATX.pdf

http://www.showmetheparts.com/airtex/#

http://www.airtexproducts.com/airtexhome.html

Brian
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 05:10:11 AM by bevans6 » Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
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« Reply #42 on: August 18, 2011, 06:18:02 AM »

. . . How many gallons per hour does a 8V-71 use? . . .  

I never heard of reverse-engineering using the UL number - that's a good trick.

I think the V's flow roughly between .5 and  1 gpm, depending on speed and whether the engine is equipped with the standard pump or high-volume pump.  

But... just an electric pump's rating probably doesn't answer the flow question, because, when needed,  the electrics will probably allows more "pull through" than they can push, so at most common temperatures and flow rates starving is probably not likely to be an issue. I would think that a pressure gauge plumbed in on the gear-pump's suction side would tell a lot what's going on with a particular installation.

Ted
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 06:20:11 AM by TedsBUSted » Logged

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bevans6
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« Reply #43 on: August 18, 2011, 06:28:35 AM »

That's a good idea with the pressure gauge.  I think the .5 - 1 gpm is very close, that is what I had heard as well.  I expect I will just put the pump in line and leave it off when it isn't priming, but I had heard of people running it in place of the mechanical pump.  I guess it would work - it's kind of low pressure compared to stock, and low flow - but the injectors create the real pressure when they inject, all the pump does is keep a head of fuel to fill the injectors.  And the flow is mostly for cooling purposes.  I bet it would run and you wouldn't tell the difference, but it wouldn't be as right in operation somehow.

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
TedsBUSted
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« Reply #44 on: August 18, 2011, 06:56:34 AM »

I started the electric pump thing because there are some engines in equipment -not Detroits- that have a lift pump that's a costly integral part of the injection pump and it's about impossible to keep ‘em pumping and priming. These are "low volume fuel flow" engines and the electrics are a nice cure for the problem.

However, with cold weather starts you can tell that the little pumps are working hard. That may have as much to do with small lines as cold fuel.

Ted
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 07:00:18 AM by TedsBUSted » Logged

Bus polygamist. Always room for another, especially ‘04 or ‘06 are welcome. NE from Chicago, across the pond.
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