Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
July 25, 2014, 02:03:10 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you had an E-Mag Subscription: By clicking on any ad, a hotlink takes you directly to the advertiser’s website.
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: leveling system  (Read 3464 times)
doug mars
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5





Ignore
« on: October 07, 2006, 06:14:45 AM »

 :)hello everyone hope all are well  i purchased a leveling system for our 4106 but the instructions say to unhook the auto levelers and i dont want to do that i have seen some coaches that have solenoids so the coach could use auto level on highway and then the manual when parked i would like to know how this is done so i could do it on ours thanx in advance for all the help Doug and Tinda Mars 4106/3044 okeechobee,fl
Logged

Doug & Tinda Mars 4106/3044
Len Silva
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4083


Angle Parked in a Parallel Universe


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2006, 07:21:24 AM »

Here is the simplest way I can come up with.  Install a 2 way solenoid vavle (Skinner) and a tee between the leveler and the air bag.  You will need to install two of them in front even though there is only one leveling valve.
When the solenoids are energized and your leveling system off, normal leveling will occur.  You could wire these into the engine run circuit or just a switch.
Logged


Hand Made Gifts

Ignorance is only bliss to the ignorant.
RTS/Daytona
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 526


Pete RTS/Daytona ->'89 TMC 35' 102" 6V92TA 4:10


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2006, 07:52:18 AM »

Hi

I Make/sell the G4 - Campsite Air bag Leveling System - I've been invited by the South/East BUS NUTS to give a short presentation of my System (which is currently installed in my RTS conversion) at thier October 27-29 Bus Conversion Rally in Hoboken GA.

Here's some general Info

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
D.P. Solutions GEN-4 "Campsite Auto-Leveling Override System -

You supply the labor-I supply all the Valves / Control panels / Wire/ Instructions / Wiring diagrams

The Pneumatic Solenoids Valve Selection was very important- Valve selection criteria:

. Auto/Manual valve must be bi-directional - (withstand pressure differentials / air flows from either direction)

. Auto/Manual valve - must have a 100% duty cycle rating - It is always energized during normal bus travel

. No minimum pressure required to operate the valves

. Raise Valve - must be bi-directional in order not to back flow if supply air leaks down

. Flow rate - Must not impede the normal auto leveling air flow

. Flow rate - Must be large enough to raise / lower air bags in a reasonable amount of time -

. Operating Pressures - Appropriate High Pressure rating - Appropriate minimum operating pressure rating

 

1.The GEN-4 input (supply side) needs to connected to the suspension air supply - This is accomplished by tapping into the line that supplies the bus auto leveling valve

2. The GEN-4 device is installed in between the Bus Leveling valve and the air bag

3. The Auto/Manual Solenoid Valve isolates the leveler from the air bag system - this valve is energized for auto leveling (normal bus traveling) and connects the Bus Auto Leveling valve to the Air Bag(s) to provide normal factory auto leveling function.

4. The Auto/Manual Solenoid Valve is de-energized during hold and manual leveling operations to block the Bus Auto leveling valve and provide a path for the manual raise/lower solenoids

5. In Manual (adj) mode the raise and lower solenoids can be energized to allow air into or deplete air from the air bag(s) for manual leveling operations - This system provided approx 10" of up/down movement in each of My RTS Buses’ far bumper corners

6. An optional "GEN-4" COMBINER VALVE is available to tie air bags, not normally controlled together during auto leveling, to be grouped together to balance the number of air bags controlled per corner during manual override leveling.

 Example - RTS Model (01-04) have leveling valves for each single front air bag and one leveling valve for all 4 rear air bags. If the GEN4 is installed at each of the OEM leveling valve points (3 point system) the rear would take 4 times longer (4 air bags) to raise or lower - if this is not acceptable - then (during manual adjust only) the combiner valve can tie the 2 front air bags together to be controlled by one GEN4 device and 2 GEN4 devices can be used to split the rear left and right apart to control only 2 air bags each.

3 Point Systems are recommended (I believe 4 point leveling can twist the Bus) but 4 point leveling is available

<>
$425 Gen-3 Three Point System (24 volt)--> (Qty 3) Gen-4 Campsite / Auto-Leveling Override solenoid units
                                                                         (Qty 1) 3 point Control Panel with 4 Carling switches
                                                                         (Qty 100ft) 16 gauge 4 conductor trailer wire spool

$525 Gen-4 Four Point System (24 volt)---> (Qty 4) Gen-4 Campsite / Auto-Leveling Override solenoid units
                                                                         (Qty 1) 4 point Control Panel with 5 Carling switches
                                                                         (Qty 100ft) 16 gauge 4 conductor trailer wire spool

Add $69 for OPTIONAL GEN-4 COMBINER VALVES

Pete (RTS/Daytona)  386...672..0571 hawk_ii_mail at yahoo.com

Logged

If you ain't part of the solution, then you're part of the problem.
RJ
Former Giant Greenbrier Owner
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2776





Ignore
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2006, 08:18:04 AM »

Pete -

Great system, but. . .

What about those of us who have 12V coaches?

 Huh
Logged

RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
Fresno CA
RTS/Daytona
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 526


Pete RTS/Daytona ->'89 TMC 35' 102" 6V92TA 4:10


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2006, 08:27:26 AM »

Ross

Unfortunately - I Can Not Find 12 volt solenoids for the price I pay for the 24 volt solenoids

But I'm still looking - Sad Sad Sad sorry
Logged

If you ain't part of the solution, then you're part of the problem.
H3Jim
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1398


1995 Prevost H3-41, series 60, B500 Allison




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2006, 01:43:57 PM »

Do you need pressure gauges on the manual adjust? 
Is it possible to overinflate a bag / corner?
Logged

Jim Stewart
El Cajon, Ca.  (San Diego area)

Travel is more than the seeing of sights, it is a change that goes on, deep  and permanent, in the ideas of living.
RTS/Daytona
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 526


Pete RTS/Daytona ->'89 TMC 35' 102" 6V92TA 4:10


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2006, 02:14:56 PM »

Do you need pressure gauges on the manual adjust? 
Is it possible to overinflate a bag / corner?

I could be wrong - but It's my "personal opinon" that in a static condition like campsite leveling - it's pretty hard to over inflate the air bag.

The way I look at it - when the air is at normal ride height pressure (?? 40-60 psi ??) and your traveling at 70 mph with a 30-40 thousand LBS fully loaded bus and you come over a good rise in the highway - I would bet air bags go over 120lbs ??

But for those that want to avoid this situation - then I suggest:
(1) - Use a 60 regulator in the line that supplies all the air fill (raise) solenoids of the (G4-Campsite Air Bag Override Leveling System)
or
(2) - Tee the G4 fill / Raise supply line in after the OEM leveling Valve instead of before the OEM Leveling Valve - (this will always limit the fill pressure to whatever the bus leveling valves were designed/adjusted for but it WILL delay the G4 fill/raise function - cause OEM levelers have a delay built into them   
Logged

If you ain't part of the solution, then you're part of the problem.
H3Jim
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1398


1995 Prevost H3-41, series 60, B500 Allison




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2006, 02:19:45 PM »

How many of these do you have in service now?  Anybody ever have any issues like that?
Logged

Jim Stewart
El Cajon, Ca.  (San Diego area)

Travel is more than the seeing of sights, it is a change that goes on, deep  and permanent, in the ideas of living.
RTS/Daytona
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 526


Pete RTS/Daytona ->'89 TMC 35' 102" 6V92TA 4:10


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2006, 02:50:57 PM »

How many of these do you have in service now?  Anybody ever have any issues like that?

About a dozen units sold already -

had one leak upon installation - sent him a replacement unit - he promised to send the bad one back for me to check - he never sent it back (Larry - if your reading this - do the right thing and send me my unit back - It's been 6+ months now) - I believe that he got something caught in the valve seat during installation)

NEVER had another problem - those of you who have installed them - speak up (pro or con)

BUT BE AWARE -- Because installation of these devices will require that the purchaser modify the existing bus air suspension system design. I absolutely require a signed "waiver of liability" prior to purchase. (copies available upon request)


 
Logged

If you ain't part of the solution, then you're part of the problem.
H3Jim
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1398


1995 Prevost H3-41, series 60, B500 Allison




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2006, 03:01:12 PM »

Can the bag can be inflated too high and damage it that way as opposed to too much pressure?




You are correct, the bags are designed to take not just the weight, but the weight when it hits a bump.

Of all the difffernt ways to level, it sure seems like one of the best, most practical ways to do the leveling.  Conceptually I like Sean's Odyssey where he installed the linear motors on the auto leveling control. He can adjust the height on the fly using the stock road leveling system, but I'm not sure of the reliability.  On same note is Fast Fred's cable control of the stock system, although I don't think Fred actually has his working yet.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2006, 03:27:20 PM by H3Jim » Logged

Jim Stewart
El Cajon, Ca.  (San Diego area)

Travel is more than the seeing of sights, it is a change that goes on, deep  and permanent, in the ideas of living.
RTS/Daytona
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 526


Pete RTS/Daytona ->'89 TMC 35' 102" 6V92TA 4:10


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2006, 03:29:39 PM »

Jim

I like the linear actuator system myself - But I believe that type of system has a flaw

A linear actuator replacing the Leveling valve control rod - will leave the leveling system in an "ACTIVE LEVELING" state all the time

as you walk around the coach / as people enter and leave / the possiblity exists that the system will always be adjusting -

UNTIL the point when there is LESS air pressure in the suspension tank than in an air bag that it's actively trying to inflate - at this point it will start draining air (deflating) from the air bag - to increase and equalize the pressure in the suspension tank - and the bus will start leaning to one side

any further movements of the bus that would normally cause the air bag to raise will now lower the air bag instead - if the suspension tank is a least than the air bag it's try to control - and so on and so forth

yea yea f/f - I know - you don't believe it will happen - let me know after you install your cables and find out for yourself

Pete RTS/Daytona
Logged

If you ain't part of the solution, then you're part of the problem.
H3Jim
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1398


1995 Prevost H3-41, series 60, B500 Allison




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2006, 03:40:15 PM »

Pete, Can the bag can be inflated too high and damage it due to being extended too high? I'm particularly interested in the rolling lobe bags on my coach.

I have check valves in the lines keeping the flow of air from going back in to a low tank which definitely helps, but the leveling valve also dumps air if it thinks that bag / side is too high.  I notice it when its windy, the coach gradually settles due to the rocking.
Logged

Jim Stewart
El Cajon, Ca.  (San Diego area)

Travel is more than the seeing of sights, it is a change that goes on, deep  and permanent, in the ideas of living.
RTS/Daytona
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 526


Pete RTS/Daytona ->'89 TMC 35' 102" 6V92TA 4:10


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2006, 03:50:44 PM »

Pete, Can the bag can be inflated too high and damage it due to being extended too high? I'm particularly interested in the rolling lobe bags on my coach.

I have check valves in the lines keeping the flow of air from going back in to a low tank which definitely helps, but the leveling valve also dumps air if it thinks that bag / side is too high.  I notice it when its windy, the coach gradually settles due to the rocking.

Jim - If the design of your bus is such that you believe that it could be damaged by over inflating the air bag and lifting the coach to hign - then either use a regulated lower pressure supply lines for the override devices or just tee to the output side of the OEM leveling valve

Pete
Logged

If you ain't part of the solution, then you're part of the problem.
H3Jim
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1398


1995 Prevost H3-41, series 60, B500 Allison




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2006, 03:59:41 PM »

At this point I have no idea if it could be damaged that way, thats why I was asking the question.  I don't want to  go through the extra expense / lesser functionality if its a non issue.  I have the fast fill valves, that are fast enough to correct the lean as I'm going around a corner.  I don't want to lose that capabilty for an issue thats a non starter.

Maybe Prevost knows, I can ask them the next time I'm in there.

Thanks
Logged

Jim Stewart
El Cajon, Ca.  (San Diego area)

Travel is more than the seeing of sights, it is a change that goes on, deep  and permanent, in the ideas of living.
JackConrad
Orange Blossom Special II
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4446


73' MC-8 8V71/HT740 Southwest Florida


WWW
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2006, 06:38:07 PM »

When we installed the leveling system on our MC-8, I called Mohawk Industries (the MFG of our rolling lobe airbags). They recommended to not exceed 85 PSI. In actual use, we have found that about 70 PSI gives us full lift.  Jack
Logged

Growing Older Is Mandatory, Growing Up Is Optional
Arcadia, Florida, When we are home
http://s682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/OBS-JC/
Ace
Guest

« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2006, 09:22:49 PM »

Pete what are you getting for the system?

Ace
Logged
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6671





Ignore
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2006, 09:53:59 PM »

I made my own system.  I have a 3 point air leveling with 2 valves in the rear and one up front.  For each point, I bought three 12v continuous duty solenoids-one normally open and the other two normally closed.  For the air supply, I tee'd into the air supply to the leveling valves.  Then between the auto leveling valves and the air bag I installed the normally open solenoid.  Tee'd in between that solenoid and the air bags is the two normally closed solenoids-one to dump the air and the other attached to the air supply from the T in the supply line to the automatic leveling valves.  The switches I have for each position is a on/off (on for manual and off for automatic) and a single toggle with on/off/on-being a spring loaded toggle for adding or dumping the air.  The operation is this- when you want to level at the campsite, first switch the first toggle from auto to manual.  When the switch goes to manual, it also activates the electricity to the add/dump switch.  So first the normally open solenoid is activated blocking the air path between the automatic leveling valve and the air bags, then all you do is to activate either the dump or adding solenoid (up or down) to level the coach.  It takes me about a minute to level and it lasts about 2-3 days.  I prefer the normally open solenoid that stays open without power because I feel a bit nervous relying on a solenoid being electrically held open for automatic leveling valve operation going down the road.  If any of the solenoids fail, you have normal automatic leveling valve operation that the bus was initially made with. I used Skinner valves, and just have to choose the correct valves for your application since they make hundreds of types.  Have had no problems with the system since installing 12 years ago.
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
akbusguy2000
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 172





Ignore
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2006, 11:11:14 PM »

I believe I have achieved an equally reliable 3-point system on my 4106 that is somewhat more flexible and uses no solenoids, no power and none of those adjustable regulators that are commonly used for leveling systems.

I used Clippard toggle valves to select between manual and automatic, and Clippard bleed/fill valves to regulate pressure (height) when in the manual position.  I have one pair for each individual set of air bags.  I added a pressure gage for each on the same panel, which allows me to monitor bag pressure under all circumstances.  The advantage of doing the air bags sets individually is that they can be individually switched between manual and automatic.  This comes in handy in iffy clearance situations, or in the event of an automatic leveling valve failure.

The only disadvantage might be in the time it takes to achieve level from the manual position, as the valves are small.  The selector valves work perfectly, but I had to alter the orifices of the bleed/fill valves to improve flow.  It can take 5 minutes or more to level up.  But the valves are foolproof and when placed in manual the bus will stay in position over most of the winter – 5 months or so.   I have the manual side of the system supplied from an 80 PSI regulator.

I could post pictures if I knew how to get them down to acceptable size.

tg   
Logged
plyonsMC9
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1159


Big Wheels Turnin'


WWW
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2006, 04:38:35 AM »

Hi tg,
If you send your pics to one of the moderators they would resize them for you.  my email address is plyons at phillyons.com 

There is also a thread in the board help which details how to resize them, along with links to some free software which helps with the same task.

Hope this helps, Phil
Logged

Northern Arizona / 1983 - MC9
Ross
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 406


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2006, 05:06:09 PM »

Tom...Do you have a source and part numbers for the solenoids?

Thanks...Ross
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!