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Author Topic: Is a 8V71 (non turbo) a dealbreaker?  (Read 3523 times)
Jamie T.
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« on: August 17, 2011, 09:22:18 AM »

I am looking at a 1980 TMC/MCI 9.  The bus has a 8V71 (non turbo) mated to a 5 speed Allison.  All fiberglass body with custom paint.  10 KW Onan genny, no inverter or batteries.  I did a cursory inspection a few days ago and everything checked out...no corrosion (bus from MS), bays look good, engine purrs nice with no smoke, dives like a dream and the bus has high quality workmanship throughout.  The conversion was completed 4 years ago and the owner has put on about 12k miles since.

My questions are:

We like to spend time in the Rockies, will I wish I didn't have the non turbo 71?  It also has 250k on it.  The owner brought it to a reputable local diesel mechanic and he advised to not touch it as it looked, sounded and check out great.  The owner used poly-wrapped fiberglass insulation, and it was attached to the frame to keep it from settling.  Has anyone had experience with this method?

Overall he did a nice job on the conversion and mechanically it appears solid.  I am planning on spending a day going through the bus and would like to hear everyone's thoughts or items I should be concerned about.

Thanks guys!

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1980 TMC-9
Allison 740
Turtle Lake, WI (1 Hr NE of Minneapolis)
Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2011, 09:33:20 AM »

OK first off to answer your question. NO an 8V71 is not a deal breaker, if you are patient and are in no hurries to get where you are going.

Is it a power house that will fly through the mountains and keep up with cars? NO

Is it the most modern or economical engine? NO

Is it a proven and reliable engine? YES! But they do have to be driven right and cared for or you will absolutely hate it.

Now as for the MCI 9 you are looking at. You say 5spd Allison? I am willing to bet it's only a 4 spd.  A 5 spd is very rare in a non DDEC coach.

Also you say "All fiberglass body" hmmm that don't sound right either! I'm scared for you all ready and I'm going to run far and fast for you! And I suggest you do too! Run Wolverine Run!
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
bevans6
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« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2011, 09:37:15 AM »

I personally think the 8V71N is a very good engine, easy to tune up to the legendary 318 hp particularly with modern injectors that don't need advanced timing.  Fairly equal to the other main choice - 6V92TA which has equivalent HP in most bus tunes but being turbocharged can be tuned up to around 350 hp without internal modifications.  You can turbo an 8V71N but to get the most you should change the pistons, etc, not a weekend task.  In terms of performance - an 8V71 is probably going to get worse fuel mileage and be slower than the more efficient and potentially more powerful 6V92.  If you decide on a repower, 8V92 is a possibility but finding one set up for MCI is going to  be hard.

I'd base your decision on the bus, the conversion,  the price, and the condition more than which engine it has.  All of the usually suspect choices are going to be slow in the mountains.  5 speed Allison is a very nice touch if you aren't just counting lockup converter as an extra gear.

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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
Jamie T.
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« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2011, 09:45:15 AM »

Yes, it's a 5 speed.  The owner who did the conversion has 20+ years as a custom truck body fabricator and specializes in fiberglass, so that is why it's all glass.  If you like the traditional look, probably not for you but if you like the seamless panels (which I do on this bus) it is sharp.

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1980 TMC-9
Allison 740
Turtle Lake, WI (1 Hr NE of Minneapolis)
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« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2011, 09:56:33 AM »

Yes, it's a 5 speed.  The owner who did the conversion has 20+ years as a custom truck body fabricator and specializes in fiberglass, so that is why it's all glass.  If you like the traditional look, probably not for you but if you like the seamless panels (which I do on this bus) it is sharp.

OK that is really what scares me! Especially if it's the great white whale that was redone in fiberglass in FL a while back with the side door in the rear for a motorcycle garage.
No windows etc. (it appears here and there in different locations with different stories from time to time)

OK now since I do not access to see the exact coach you are looking at or even pictures I still stand my ground!
I could be wrong. But once I thought I was, and it turned out I was mistaken.

I ain't say'n I'm perfect or know EVERYTHING. But I know a lot and what I don't know I have friends here and elsewhere that do.

I just hate to see a novice get taken on their first experience and get run away from the hobby by the terrible taste of a bad buy from a crooked salesperson.
I'm still running unless you'd like to provide us a link to farther access it for you I still stand my ground!
Grin  B K  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
uncle ned
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« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2011, 10:00:14 AM »



BK  Why don't you say what you really mean. LOL LOL 

I am planning on the upcoming rally you and Don are planning.

Hope I come out better this time.

Have a nice day.

Uncle Ned
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Scott Bennett
Scott & Heather MCI-9
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« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2011, 10:08:05 AM »

Ok, since no one else will beg, I'll do it. PLEASE post photos! If a photo says a thousand words, save your fingers from typing and post a photo of said coach  Grin  Is the fiberglass just the outer skin? Is it the roof too? Is it skinned in fiberglass from the beltline (stainless) on up?
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Scott & Heather
1984 MCI9 6V92-turbo with 9 inch roof raise & conversion in progress.
http://www.scottmichaelbennett.com/p/our-bus.html
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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2011, 10:09:26 AM »

Well Ned I just like to be honest!

You know how I am. I have a big mouth and I do know what both my feet taste like! My daddy always told me "son if ya can't afford to tell the truth, you sure can't afford to cover up a lie!"
and "If you always tell the truth, you don't have to remember which lie you told who!"

I may not be right, but I do tell it like I see it! (see the post about a possible start! LOL!)

And yes we are looking forward to seeing you here too. But this time I don't know if we're going to be able to allow you to go to "Pickwick" after you leave here.
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2011, 10:12:00 AM »

Ok, since no one else will beg, I'll do it. PLEASE post photos! If a photo says a thousand words, save your fingers from typing and post a photo of said coach  Grin  Is the fiberglass just the outer skin? Is it the roof too? Is it skinned in fiberglass from the beltline (stainless) on up?

AH Scotty I admire your quest, but I for one NEVER beg.

I have lived with those initials all my life and I just don't do it!
Grin  BK  Grin   aka Bryce E. Gaston
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
Jamie T.
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« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2011, 10:20:21 AM »

BK,

Your insight, along with everyone else's on this and other boards has helped me immensely already.  That's why I threw this out here before I got too far.

I don't think this is the bus from FL...here's a link to the bus:

http://nationalmotorsales.com/addetails.php?slno=10037

In the "for what it's worth" category I just popped in on the owner last week and asked to see his bus for sale (heard about it from a friend) and his home, old fashioned garage, pole shed, and all his toys were immaculate...always a good sign.  He obviously was more than happy to swap stories and show off his baby.

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1980 TMC-9
Allison 740
Turtle Lake, WI (1 Hr NE of Minneapolis)
Busted Knuckle
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6 Setras, 2 MCIs, and 1 Dina. Just buses ;D


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« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2011, 10:44:30 AM »

BK,

Your insight, along with everyone else's on this and other boards has helped me immensely already.  That's why I threw this out here before I got too far.

I don't think this is the bus from FL...here's a link to the bus:

http://nationalmotorsales.com/addetails.php?slno=10037

In the "for what it's worth" category I just popped in on the owner last week and asked to see his bus for sale (heard about it from a friend) and his home, old fashioned garage, pole shed, and all his toys were immaculate...always a good sign.  He obviously was more than happy to swap stories and show off his baby.


OK with that link and a little more insight I give it a thumbs up! I't definitely not the "White Elephant" that surfaces from time to time.

And not to make you feel/look bad, but your description was not quite accurate.
It has had a "fiberglass smooth side kit" put on it on the lower 1/2. Which is a very popular modification.
However it appears the rest is standard MCI construction with the exception of the window skins.

Yes it looks like a very nice coach. And yes I agree that if all his toys are nice it's most likely in great shape.
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
bevans6
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« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2011, 10:47:14 AM »

That looks nice to me, hard to tell for sure in the photos but if you've seen it in person you would know better.  It looks like an update kit to me.  The stainless that's gone is mostly non-structural, you can buy the kits for the front aspect.  the sides, I always felt that the thick aluminium riveted on below the windows and above the bay doors was structural, but maybe not.  No roof raise which speaks to a more solid chassis, and the roof appears stock front to back.  Just my thoughts.

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
HB of CJ
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« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2011, 11:02:33 AM »

Is there enough physical driveline length to hang the 5 speed Allision?  Dunno fur sures.  And if soossss...what does that do to the driveline U-joint angle and service life?

Is the 8V71N a "318", or does it have a reduced rating?  MIGHT make a difference going up hills if one is in a hurry.  A true CR 5 speed would work well with the 8V71N  HB of CJ (old coot)
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Jamie T.
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« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2011, 11:08:51 AM »

One more question for those way smarter than I.  After taking it for a quick spin and the bus was shut down, the owner said that to restart the bus he had to crack an air line on the Rear of the engine...said it acted up on his previous trip and he hadn't looked into it yet.  Was thinking his skinner valve needs cleaning or rebuilding...does that sound accurate?  I had to leave, but want as much info when I go back to look it over on depth.
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1980 TMC-9
Allison 740
Turtle Lake, WI (1 Hr NE of Minneapolis)
Scott Bennett
Scott & Heather MCI-9
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« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2011, 11:15:27 AM »

Nice coach Smiley I'd be so curious someday to know what the curb weight is. I had completely different visions dancing in my head when you suggested it was glassed. But it looks fantastic. Reminds me of Hershey's. I'd totally have a Hershey's logo put on if I owned it. The ladies at every rally would flock  Cool  Oh yeah, Bryce, you can't run away from your name.... Grin
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Scott & Heather
1984 MCI9 6V92-turbo with 9 inch roof raise & conversion in progress.
http://www.scottmichaelbennett.com/p/our-bus.html
˙ǝɯoɔlǝʍ suoıʇɐuop ˙snq ʍǝu ɐ pǝǝu ʎlqɐqoɹd ll,ǝʍ 'sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı
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