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Author Topic: Impact Wrench, Bus Air Question  (Read 3089 times)
Scott Bennett
Scott & Heather MCI-9
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« on: August 18, 2011, 03:22:45 PM »

I know this has been discussed before since I've read the archive posts. But it isn't clear enough for a bus newbie. Where can I get air for my impact wrench on the coach? Trying to work on my car, and tried to connect to the air in the back engine bay, but of course when the compressor cuts out, no more air. A pain to say the least. I've read about tying into the front tank beneath the driver, but how and exactly where do I connect my 3/8 air hose? I'm assuming I'll need an adapter for 1/4 lines? A "baby" language description would make my day. Thanks in advance....

Scotty
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Scott & Heather
1984 MCI9 6V92-turbo with 9 inch roof raise & conversion in progress.
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Iceni John
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« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2011, 04:23:26 PM »

I have a small twin-tank 2 HP 120V AC compressor that runs off my emergency generator, and have air outlets in three places around the bus.   This compressor is connected to the bus's accessories air tank, so when it runs it also fills the acc tank which is about 10 gallons or so.   In an emergency I can also connect the 120V AC compressor to the bus's wet tank, enough to release brakes if the engine won't start and I need a tow to get off the road.   (I would never, and in fact cannot, run the electric compressor while driving, so it will never be used instead of the Bendix compressor.)

A compressor of this size won't run a big impact wrench too well, but for emergency use, especially if feeding it into a larger reserve tank like I have, it may work with a 1/2" or good 3/4" wrench.   I use my compressor for inflating tyres and for running small air tools like my grease gun.   For wheel nuts I'll probably buy a 40"-long 1"-drive breaker bar and some Proto impact sockets and extensions.

John
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1990 Crown 2R-40N-552:  6V92TAC, DDEC II, HT740, Jake.      Hecho en Chino.     
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« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2011, 04:59:51 PM »

You can put a quick connect on the drain valve fitting on the bottom of your accessory tank in the bay under the driver seat up front.  If you don't run the bus up past cut-out on the compressor there will be air at the ping tank valve that you already mentioned.  There are places in the engine bay that are part of the accessory system, a small manifold on each forward bay wall, and you can put a QD in there and get accessory system air as well.

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
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« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2011, 06:19:49 PM »

Ok....I'll check the accessory tank underneath the drivers' seat. I've already plumbed and connected my pancake compressor to the coach system in the back. So I may take your advice and allow that compressor the 20 minutes it needs to fill up the tanks in the coach air system, then run another hose to my impact wrench. I have a Kobalt 350 ft lbs torque 1/2" gun. I'm assuming it will run fine??? Trying to do an emergency hub assembly/bearing replacement on my Camry before we drive 500 miles for the weekend. The bearing sounds terrible. Thanks for the pointers. I'll see what I can connect...
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Scott & Heather
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http://www.scottmichaelbennett.com/p/our-bus.html
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« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2011, 06:24:33 PM »

Iceni John,
Is that compressor tank rated for enough psi that its safe for the bus air pressure to build and back feed into it?  I have saw a few compressors that have exceeded there limit and its not pertty when the tank blows.


As already mentioned you should be able to tie into any of the tanks and le the bus run to maintain air pressure.

I use my impact off of my bus air to change tires all the time at the races.

Eric
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robertglines1
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« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2011, 06:28:43 PM »

what about taping into the drain you pictured for the wet tank.
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Scott Bennett
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« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2011, 06:33:50 PM »

Quote
Insert Quote
what about taping into the drain you pictured for the wet tank.

Pressure to it dies when the compressor kicks off. Sad Tried everything today. And with a shot bearing, and no way to get the old one off, I'm toast. Oh well...I'll figure something out. I always do.
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Scott & Heather
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« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2011, 06:40:51 PM »

like they said front left compartment where emergency fill is just put female fitting in there and your good to go.
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« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2011, 06:54:31 PM »

There is a schrader  valve in the front bay marked emergency fill, or similar - it is NOT a supply of air either.  The last place I would get air is the wet tank.  You'll get it done!  They changed wheel bearings before they had air guns... 

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
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1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
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« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2011, 07:07:10 PM »

And in our excitement to install air fittings for accessory use, remember that you still need a way to drain moisture out of the tank you tap into.

If you put a fitting in where the drain goes, guess where the moisture gets to go when you attach the tool?

Wet tank is a bad place to put an airline fitting, go deeper into the air system for drier air.

Why wouldn't you run the coach engine as a supply of air for the tools? The little compressor is for a quick getaway from the campground.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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Iceni John
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« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2011, 08:37:06 PM »

Iceni John,
Is that compressor tank rated for enough psi that its safe for the bus air pressure to build and back feed into it?  I have saw a few compressors that have exceeded there limit and its not pertty when the tank blows.
Don't worry, I checked the electric compressor's PSI before I bought it.   It's rated at 125 PSI, and its safety valve is really close to tripping at that pressure.   One reason I chose it is because its pressure and the bus's are the same.   So far so good.

Thanks, John
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1990 Crown 2R-40N-552:  6V92TAC, DDEC II, HT740, Jake.      Hecho en Chino.     
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« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2011, 05:02:23 AM »

The bus safety valve will trip before any commercially available compressor will exceed a safe operating pressure.  No bets on cobbled together from old propane tank or 50 years old, Dad kept it in the shed, I just put a new furnace fan motor on it compressors.

Air guns and tools in general need both pressure and volume of air to work.  If you are connected via a 1/4" hardline 30 feet from a tank, going  through a bunch of connectors, an air gun just won't develop enough oomph to do much.  I used to have a pony tank that I would carry to the work site, connect to the end of my 100' hose back to my compressor, and the pony tank allowed my air tool to work.  Connect  your accessory hose directly to a tank if at all possible.

If you are filling your bus system from an external air source via the ping tank chuck, set your air compressor so it stops before it reaches the cut-out setting of your air governor on the bus compressor.  If you go over that setting, the governor will cut-out and all the air from the compressor will be discharged via the air dryer vent. 

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
Scott Bennett
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« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2011, 06:25:51 AM »

Your replies are saving my skin. I'm headed out there right now to plumb this in. I have tried to get the bolts loose with a breaker bar, but the way it's set up, I can't keep the socket on the bolt head at the right angle while pulling on the bar. So I get twisting slippage. Another few times of it, and the bolt will be round. So my only resort is the impact wrench. Thanks so so much for your help guys. I'll post my results. While I'm out there, maybe you can chime in on how you set up your pancake tanks to run inline with your system. I have a 125PSI tank as well and I'd love to have it filled from bus air and then plumb into it...nice concept.  Anyway, still learning. Thanks again so much!
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Scott & Heather
1984 MCI9 6V92-turbo with 9 inch roof raise & conversion in progress.
http://www.scottmichaelbennett.com/p/our-bus.html
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Scott Bennett
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« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2011, 08:32:47 AM »

Alrighty...so there's no air at that front schrader fitting. Nada...not sure where to tap in now. Buswarrior, I'm running the coach fast idle while I use the impact. Just want to get access to my coach air without it cutting out in between my Bendix compressor cycles. Not sure why there isn't air to my under driver schrader. But I've seen stranger things...
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Scott & Heather
1984 MCI9 6V92-turbo with 9 inch roof raise & conversion in progress.
http://www.scottmichaelbennett.com/p/our-bus.html
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« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2011, 08:43:30 AM »

If the schrader is on the bottom of the tank it is probably just plugged. Pull the schrader and clean it out. Probably lots of junk on top of it.
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« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2011, 08:49:48 AM »

  No bets on cobbled together from old propane tank or 50 years old, Dad kept it in the shed, I just put a new furnace fan motor on it compressors.
Brian

Your Dad did that too?  Mine let water build up in the system to the point that when It finally went it must have blown 3 gallons of water out the hole.
  I use my pancake compresser to air the bus system back by the wet drain in the engine compartment. I also use it to do the maintenance projects on the bus.

Brice
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Scott Bennett
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« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2011, 08:56:58 AM »

No, I was dumb even thought it was already mentioned...the emergency fill is a schrader valve that is not a source of air. Brian already said it. But I didn't get it. The bottom of the tank has a pull ring. So I removed the pull ring, installed an air hose to my pancake tank...then from my pancake tank to my gun. The 350 ft lbs torque of the gun isn't enough to get these bolts loose on the bearing. So, going to try leverage again. This is a bummer. I need a good impact wrench.
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Scott & Heather
1984 MCI9 6V92-turbo with 9 inch roof raise & conversion in progress.
http://www.scottmichaelbennett.com/p/our-bus.html
˙ǝɯoɔlǝʍ suoıʇɐuop ˙snq ʍǝu ɐ pǝǝu ʎlqɐqoɹd ll,ǝʍ 'sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı
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« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2011, 09:34:31 AM »

   A friend asked me to change the clutch in his daughters Honda prelude some years back. Piece of cake right? Yeah well, every bolt, from the axle nut, to the bell housing, was so tight I had to use a 1/2 inch breaker bar with a cheater pipe on every single bolt and nut, and broke several 6 point Craftsman sockets in the process. I dont know why none of the bolts didnt snap, they should have.

   It may not be that your impact dont have enough oomph, it could be the moron who worked on it last overtightened everything, used locktight, or both. Either one can be bad, both is really bad.
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Scott Bennett
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« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2011, 10:50:58 AM »

Finally got it. Let the hose pressurize...then went at it. The gun worked hard, but got it finally. Thanks again so much for your help. The bearing is replaced, and we're about to start a 500 round-trip journey in our car for the weekend. Thanks again so much. Tapped into the tank drain under the driver's seat...it was dry when I first pulled the ring, so I'm pretty sure I was ok for the 10 minutes I was connected to it concerning moisture. What a relief! Smiley
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Scott & Heather
1984 MCI9 6V92-turbo with 9 inch roof raise & conversion in progress.
http://www.scottmichaelbennett.com/p/our-bus.html
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« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2011, 03:45:17 AM »

glad to hear you got it done.  For future reference you are going to need a better impact gun for your bus....it will laugh at 350 ft/lb.  A decent 3/4" will really help.  I got this SK 3/4"
http://www.toolfetch.com/Category/Air_Tools/Air_Impact_Guns/3_4_impact_guns/SK92141.htm?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=thefind
a few years back.  I thought I would just use it for my bus, but it has really helped with my work van and car  as well, and I was already running a 500 (600?) ft/lb 1/2" .  Last thing, you need a big punk tank/compressor tank ( 5 gals)  and a 1/2" hose to get a 3/4" to perform well.  I connect mine directly to the tank, bypassing the regulator and use the big quick connect fittings (the expensive ones, can't remember the size).  Hope you have a great trip, and when you get a chance study your bus manual, as all the air system stuff makes sense with a little study.
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« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2011, 07:41:23 AM »

Trace the air compressor feed line to the first air tank-that's the "wet" tank. I would NOT use air from that tank.  Then look for other tanks (my bus has 4 tanks) and use any of those tanks since the air will be much dryer then the "wet" tank.  Many air tanks will have more fittings then are used.  Either use an unused fitting, or just put a T into another fitting.  The best is to use a 1/2" hose to a 50ft retractable hose reel mounted in your bay.  Then you have instant air whenever you need it.  Course if your engine is in operative, you won't have the air.  That's why many have auxiliary electric air compressors also.  The Dewalt low pro contractor is nice-quieter then most.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2011, 05:50:06 PM »

If you feed your air tool oily wet from the tank, you'll know it because you get sprayed as it exits the tool via the exhaust.

Always fun in a garage environment with hoists.

Mechanic on shift before attaches one of those hanging airlines to the coach wet tank via the installed fitting and quarter turn valve to keep the suspension filled while up in the air - without draining the tank first - oily wet runs down into the loop of hose once the pressure equalizes... next guy plugs in his air gun without clearing the line... always makes it into his face for some reason...

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2011, 05:40:29 PM »

I recently purchased an electric impact < Makita > 1200 psi works great its a good alternative to air plug into your gen set . A Little pricy but very handy
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« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2011, 05:43:43 PM »

Don't know about MCIs but I plumbed a female quick connect fitting after a shutoff valve to my 4104 front aux tank to make it easy to fill with my shop compressor.

To make that same fitting serve as a source of air I connected two male quick connect fittings back to back with a short nipple. This makes the same connection a source or intake for air.

As you've found out, the drain tank/muffler at the compressor outlet is not a good air source since it is between the compressor and the check valve to the storage tanks. It only has air when the comp is running and then it pulsates.
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PD4107-152
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« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2011, 03:40:58 AM »

When volume and pressure are not quite enough. It also makes putting 110+ PSI into tires out of a bus air system that kicks out at 120 a sinch as well  Smiley


http://www.dickmantires.com/

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« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2011, 06:13:51 PM »

I've never used more than 90psi on my 4104 or 4107, don't understand the need for 110psi since these buses don't carry anything near  what they did with passengers and luggage?
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