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Author Topic: Vanner Equalizer install...Worth the hassle???  (Read 2778 times)
Highway Yacht
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« on: August 18, 2011, 03:33:39 PM »

I have a good working Vanner Equalizer from a 1989 RTS bus that I was thinking of maybe installing in the MC-9 if having one would be worth the time and effort of installing it. The main reason for my thinking of installing it would be so I could run my 12V stuff such as stereo/cd player, GPS, Cell Phone, etc and also wanted to install new 12V Led Clearance and marker lights. Any input or advice is welcome..

Jimmy
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« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2011, 04:35:43 PM »

Love mine! Nice to have the 12 volt option when considering other items for the conversion. Worth it to me!

Grant
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Grant Goold
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« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2011, 04:57:09 PM »

Depending on your current load a Vanner isn't the only choice, but I think an equalizer is the right way to go.  I run a 24v/12v/ house bank and use the Vanner on the 12V loads - which are about the same as yours except for the clearance lights.

Brian
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« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2011, 04:58:58 PM »

Love mine! Nice to have the 12 volt option when considering other items for the conversion. Worth it to me!

Grant


Did you install it yourself...and if so, was it very difficult to install and wire in??
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« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2011, 05:07:44 PM »

Depending on your current load a Vanner isn't the only choice, but I think an equalizer is the right way to go.  I run a 24v/12v/ house bank and use the Vanner on the 12V loads - which are about the same as yours except for the clearance lights.

Brian

Brian... So far, the only battery bank I have now is the (2) 8D start batteries and that is where I want to hook up the Vanner. I have not unhooked the Vanner from the RTS yet so I really don't know what all is involved. If my memory is correct, on a 24V MCI system, you should never pull more than 10 Amps of 12V without using an equalizer to keep the two batteries in check.. Does that sound about right??

Jimmy
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« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2011, 05:47:56 PM »

Do it.

Pay close attention to the order in which to disconnect and reconnect the three cables.

There was a large sticker on it from the factory. If missing, find the directions before screwing around.

It matters, or the smoke may be let out.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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Bill B /bus
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« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2011, 06:07:49 PM »

Yes!

And follow the instruction or the smoke comes out.

Easy hookup. I use #4 AWG for the lines to the equalizer.

Bill
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Bill & Lynn
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« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2011, 06:09:07 PM »

There are only three wires, it's really hard to get wrong.  The  smoke never comes out, in my experience.

Brian
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« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2011, 07:40:29 PM »

I had to add a 12v battery after my vanner. The Vanner would not stay running for long period of time when I was pulling a load. I installed one battery to act as a buffer and have had no problem since. It is worth installing.

John
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 07:43:23 PM by Jriddle » Logged

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John Riddle
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« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2011, 06:37:23 AM »

John, does that mean that the Vanner functions as a battery charger in your setup?
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« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2011, 09:56:44 AM »

The the Vanner equalizer is usually used to center tap the 24v system to get 12v.  In that case the equalizer functions to keep both batteries balanced.  You can also use it as a 12v battery charger.  The wiring is just a little different.  We use ours to charge the 12v bank while traveling.
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« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2011, 10:47:45 AM »

Depends on the model Jimmy I wouldn't waste my time with  60-10 the last 2 numbers tell the amp draw a 60-50's you can run things off those a 60-10 you really need 2 if you get a above 1 light and a radio lol 10 amps is not much in a converted coach.
I saw a E model seated coach with two 60-50 in it fwiw

good luck
« Last Edit: September 11, 2011, 10:50:34 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2011, 06:14:43 PM »

John, does that mean that the Vanner functions as a battery charger in your setup?

On my maiden voyage I tried to run straight off the equalizer. The Vanner kept shutting down. I put the battery in as a surge bank and have had no issues since. I guess you could say it is charging  the battery.

John
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John Riddle
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« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2011, 01:50:20 PM »

Jimmy,

Glad I put mine in, well worth it.

Mount it as close as possible to your batteries.

Cliff

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« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2011, 02:42:45 PM »

Depends on the model Jimmy I wouldn't waste my time with  60-10 the last 2 numbers tell the amp draw a 60-50's you can run things off those a 60-10 you really need 2 if you get a above 1 light and a radio lol 10 amps is not much in a converted coach.
I saw a E model seated coach with two 60-50 in it fwiw

good luck

Clifford,
I was just fixing to type in and mention the MCI on our lot that belongs to a local church has 2 on it. I'll have to look & see what size they are. (I'd never seen or heard of "stacking" them before)
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
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« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2011, 02:54:12 PM »

I got mine off a New Flyer Transit circa 1990. It was equipped with a pair of Vanners.

Since then, seen transits both ways, a big 100 amp single or smaller twins.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2011, 04:25:52 AM »

Equalizers are very important and play a significant role in the electrical systems.

My coach is set up as a 24 volt house and chassis. Yet both have 12 volt current requirements. The Vanners allow 24 volt charging while maintaining the balance of voltage between all batteries. For example, both the chassis and house have sets of batteries wired in parallel and series so I have 12 and 24 volts available. Simply charging with a 24 volt alternator or charger will not assure all batteries will be maintained at the same voltage, so the Vanners are maintaining a very tight relationship between the 24 volt side of the battery bank and the 12 volt side. The Vanner maintains that relationship within 1/2 volt. If the 24 volt reading is 27 volts for example, the 12 volt reading is going to be 13.5 volts, plus or minus 1/2 volt.

Because of that Vanner equalizer, if you were to separate all of the batteries and take their individual readings, regardless of their state of charge (assuming they are all the same age and condition) all of their voltages would read the same.

If you have batteries in parallel such as four house batteries all supplying only 12 volts to the house there is no need for an equalizer.

Since my chassis has four batteries tasked with supplying 24 volts for things like starting the coach or powering the AC system, but also supplying 12 volts for things like the lights and DDEC the coach comes with one 100 amp equalizer, or on older vintage coaches it had 2 50 amp equalizers.
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Jon Wehrenberg
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« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2011, 04:53:17 AM »

Prevosman, why a Vanner for a DDEC supply they don't care if they are 12V or 24V never saw a DDEC ran from a Vanner before ?


good luck
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« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2011, 11:08:44 AM »

Prevosman, why a Vanner for a DDEC supply they don't care if they are 12V or 24V never saw a DDEC ran from a Vanner before ?
good luck

Clifford I have to ask are you sure?

I'm not challenging your vast knowledge. Just that I've been told the exact opposite.
I was told on our older DDEC's (8V92's an early 60 Series) that they are very picky about 12 V not getting below 12.1.

Now our newer buses have 24V DDEC units (or so I am told) and one of them is very finicky and if it ain't seeing 25+ volts it will crank all day and not start until I charge the batteries or put a booster box on it. Now the other will fire even if it gets down to 22 V so go figure.

Also not long ago we were experiencing HARD down shifts. (like throw ya outta the seat hard) And after the Allison dealer had it nearly 2 weeks and never found anything except low voltage codes.
Then about the same time we discovered one of the alternators was going/gone bad.
So I changed the alternator and it started shifting correctly again.
About a week later the other alternator went out. (yeah I know shoulda changed them both at the same time.)

SO when I mentioned the alternators going out to Allison they immediately said "uh huh that's exactly why you were experiencing those hard shifts!"  They also told me that the ATEC'c were very very sensitive to correct voltage an if they didn't have 12.5 or 25 V for which ever unit you had they would act up.
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« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2011, 11:21:06 AM »

That is true about the older DDEC but they don't care where they get 12.1 volts can be from a 12 volt battery bank or a 24 volt bank all they do is stumble a little on start up with low voltage the ones I been around, my point was why a Vanner I never saw one tied to a Vanner always the batteries


good luck
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« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2011, 01:09:36 PM »

Equalizers are very important and play a significant role in the electrical systems.

My coach is set up as a 24 volt house and chassis. Yet both have 12 volt current requirements. The Vanners allow 24 volt charging while maintaining the balance of voltage between all batteries. For example, both the chassis and house have sets of batteries wired in parallel and series so I have 12 and 24 volts available. Simply charging with a 24 volt alternator or charger will not assure all batteries will be maintained at the same voltage, so the Vanners are maintaining a very tight relationship between the 24 volt side of the battery bank and the 12 volt side. The Vanner maintains that relationship within 1/2 volt. If the 24 volt reading is 27 volts for example, the 12 volt reading is going to be 13.5 volts, plus or minus 1/2 volt.

Because of that Vanner equalizer, if you were to separate all of the batteries and take their individual readings, regardless of their state of charge (assuming they are all the same age and condition) all of their voltages would read the same.

If you have batteries in parallel such as four house batteries all supplying only 12 volts to the house there is no need for an equalizer.

Since my chassis has four batteries tasked with supplying 24 volts for things like starting the coach or powering the AC system, but also supplying 12 volts for things like the lights and DDEC the coach comes with one 100 amp equalizer, or on older vintage coaches it had 2 50 amp equalizers.

I'm not sure what the power rating is on this Vanner.. I haven't pulled it from my RTS yet and it has a cover over it so I can't see the numbers until I pull it out. Also, I am mainly just concerned about being able to run a couple 12V interior lights, cell phone, GPS, and am/fm stereo while puttering down the highway. There will be no house batteries..just the (2) 8D start batteries.

Jimmy
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« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2011, 01:54:25 PM »

As to the question regarding 12 volts for DDEC. I do not know why on Prevost coaches, at least from the introduction of DDECI, up through my vintage DDECIII they use 12 volts. That's a nominal figure and the DDEC can still function with less than 12 volts, but I do not know at what specific voltage the cutout is.

I sense from some comments that the Vanner's function is misunderstood. The Vanner serves to maintain the voltage in the batteries in the entire battery bank at the same level regardless of whether the batteries are being charged, or if they have no input, but are merely being drawn down. Specifically, let's stick with DDEC. but this could apply to the use of lights or any current draw. The way the batteries are wired in parallel and in series it is possible to have a 12 volt load that is depleting the 12 volt circuit within the battery group. When that happens those batteries that are part of the 24 volt circuit will not be drawn down. So the Vanner in essence draws power from those batteries that are not necessarily loaded and "gives" it to the ones with the 12 volt loads so the voltage in every battery in the entire set is equal. Without the Vanner on a 12/24 volt battery set up the 12 volt batteries would be drawn down while the other batteries without a load would still have a charge. The Vanner equalizes the batteries when charging also whether the charge is from the engine alternator, a charger, or inverter/charger.

On my DDEC III coach my DDEC has power all the time, even when the master battery switch is turned off. This preserves certain data in DDEC. There are three circuits (notably CB 19, 20, 21) that remain hot. In fact when folks have a Prevost that decides to stop running the first thing I ask them to check are those three breakers because if any one trips the bus will not start or keep running if started. Those three are all 12 volt.

I am not saying this as an electrical engineer but as a layman that understands how equalizers contribute to the coach.
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Jon Wehrenberg
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« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2011, 02:24:50 PM »

Depends on the unit some will cut out at 10 volts and some 9.5 when they start to stumble it is close to shutdown and if your clock battery is good they won't lose any data without power.The DDEC 1 is a different animal from the 11 or 111 but none care if it is 24 volt or 12 volt

good luck
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