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Author Topic: Need help with headlights; they didn't come on after 1 month in storage.  (Read 2390 times)
loosenut
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« on: August 26, 2011, 03:29:30 PM »

Coming out of storage Dieter, Neoplan, started up immediately as always.  The running lights, blinkers etc all light up, just not the headlamps  The headlight setup has four halogen lights with the outside two having 3 prongs and the inside 2 having 2 prongs.  I don't detect power in the lamp socket. 

The running lights and headlights are switched through the ignition switch, 1st position, no lights, second position, running lights, 3rd position headlights.  The switch seems to be operating correctly.

Since all electrical chassis problems seem to have bad grounds where should I look to check for a bad ground.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Mike

 
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robertglines1
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« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2011, 03:43:14 PM »

Mike un familiar with your coach.  operate that switch several times(corroded contacts?) grounds (usual culprit) add remote temp ground to system.  good luck hope someone familiar with your particular set  up will reply 
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 03:49:15 PM by robertglines1 » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2011, 05:07:56 PM »

I know my switch is for the relay. The relay is what turns them on. Check there
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« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2011, 08:08:35 PM »

I second the relay issue! I don't know Neoplans but with having owned (still do most of them) 8 Setra's I do know German buses and some common issues.

To bad our resident Neoplan GURU is absent at the moment due to his commitments to the Red Cross he is somewhere tied up with Hurricane Irene being the only thing on their minds @ this moment!
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
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« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2011, 08:45:58 PM »

Aren't those buses 12/24 and the headlights work off 12v through a Vanner ?

good luck
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« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2011, 04:46:53 AM »

Aren't those buses 12/24 and the headlights work off 12v through a Vanner ?

Probably.  If things are wired properly you should still get 12 volts even if the Vanner is dead.  The 12 volts comes from center tapping the battery bank.  The Vanner just equalizes the load two sides of the battery bank so you don't fry one side of the battery bank.
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« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2011, 07:30:18 AM »

I think MCI is the only one that uses the center tap on Prevost the Vanner draws 12V from all the batteries and if the fuse blows there is no 12v I don't know how it is wired on a Neo

good luck
« Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 07:32:21 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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belfert
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« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2011, 07:35:06 AM »

I believe Dina has it set up with a center tap.  I doubt the OP has a problem with lack of 12 volts if parking lights work and just not the headlights.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2011, 07:55:31 AM »

I don't have any idea how he is wired,I have 24 volt GM here and all the 12v from the Vanner goes to a fuse block and is distributed from there the marker,brake and head lights are on a different circuit I have no idea if this factory or owner installed

good luck
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loosenut
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« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2011, 08:32:34 AM »

Thank you for your answers.  There are 3 relays labeled headlight.  One of the relays is slightly warm to the touch and the others are ambient.  How do I test a relay?

Thank you all for your help.

Mike
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luvrbus
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« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2011, 08:49:15 AM »

Oh boy how many prongs (blades) do you have on the relay with it getting warm check the circuit breaker also it should after the relays

good luck
« Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 08:52:49 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2011, 09:03:23 AM »

Are the relays the same?  How about switching them around to see if another relay in the same socket is still warm to the touch?
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« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2011, 01:28:35 PM »

read up on relays online...there are many sites etc explaining automotive relays....also with a wiring diagram you can temporarily bypass a relay to see if you have  a bad relay.
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hargreaves
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« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2011, 09:56:25 PM »

Try jumping on the dimmer switch a bunch of times. The contacts get corroded and the result is no headlights. good luck   Gerry
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« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2011, 10:28:25 PM »

Try jumping on the dimmer switch a bunch of times. The contacts get corroded and the result is no headlights. good luck   Gerry

  That one made me laugh. Id like a few bucks for the times that ones bitten me.
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« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2011, 10:35:51 PM »

Several things to check, but I agree about the dimmer switch.  They are known to corrode and fill with crude.  I had mine out recently to clean the contacts.
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« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2011, 07:40:49 AM »

Some of the dimmer switches on those buses are on the turn signal jumping on it may be a problem

good luck
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« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2011, 07:57:21 AM »

Thanks Lin, I know some people think that living in the northwest, we are wet behind the ears. LOL!
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« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2011, 08:07:50 AM »

Why would you remove a dimmer switch and not replace it they only cost 15 bucks for a new one

good luck
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« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2011, 10:45:41 AM »

Try jumping on the dimmer switch a bunch of times. The contacts get corroded and the result is no headlights. good luck   Gerry

OK so I jumped on the dimmer switch and now the turn signal lever is just hanging by a wire. What so I do now? (Oh and I got my leg stuck in the steering wheel too!
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« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2011, 10:59:43 AM »

OH and Clifford if I remember correctly the Neo's are like a Setra and the headlights are the only 12V lights on the coach. The rest are 24V like an older MCI.

To the best of my memory that is why Sean did dual 12V LEDs to make it work on 24V system.
Grin  BK  Grin

OH and by the way Gerry & Lin. I agree that the dimmer switch can be a problem too! (regardless of whether it's on the steering column or floor!)

Mike make sure that the relays have the exact same part # before you try switching places with them. I usually just use a jumper rather than taking a chance on mixing up what relay went where!(take a piece of wire 3-4" long and put "blade" connectors on each end, & bend in a U shape)

It's easy to use a jumper to test. Take a volt meter and find which contact is "hot" with out the headlight switch on. That will be your power coming from the source. Put one end of the jumper in it, and the other in the one directly across from it. If you get lights you either have a bad relay or the relay is not getting power.
(with one relay warm, and two ambient it could be either. But my guess it the warm one is OK and the 2 ambients are not getting juice for what ever reason.)
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« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2011, 11:20:38 AM »

Clifford--You are absolutely right about changing the switch.  However, the dimmer switch was sticking, so I removed it with the intention of getting one just like it.  When I had it out, I saw the contacts were corroded.  I cleaning it up, hit the mechanism with some WD40 and put it back until I got a new one.  Unfortunately, it works fine now, so I have not been motivated to replace it.
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« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2011, 11:23:53 AM »

That works Lin lot of the time a wire is broken on the switch causing the headlight not to come on 

good luck
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« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2011, 07:59:13 PM »

Again thanks all. 

Following the early advice I took the relays out, changed positions and hit them with a hammer.  The lights still don't work.  FWIW, the relays labeled headlight are 24 volt relays and the lights are 12v. 

The dimmer is operated by the turn signal stalk.  Tomorrow I will work over the dimmer switch like it was a slot machine and let you know if it changes.

Mike
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« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2011, 09:40:36 AM »

Again thanks all. 

Following the early advice I took the relays out, changed positions and hit them with a hammer.  The lights still don't work.  FWIW, the relays labeled headlight are 24 volt relays and the lights are 12v. 

The dimmer is operated by the turn signal stalk.  Tomorrow I will work over the dimmer switch like it was a slot machine and let you know if it changes.

Mike

Mike yes those are 24V relays! The "signal" from the switch will be a low amp 24V, but the power for the headlights that the relay activates will be 12V (and higher amp!)
Grin  BK  Grin
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« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2011, 10:55:23 AM »

Again thanks all. 

Following the early advice I took the relays out, changed positions and hit them with a hammer.  The lights still don't work.  FWIW, the relays labeled headlight are 24 volt relays and the lights are 12v. 

The dimmer is operated by the turn signal stalk.  Tomorrow I will work over the dimmer switch like it was a slot machine and let you know if it changes.

Mike

You do understand that you need to use a special electrical hammer on those things, right?  Regular hammers just won't work.
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« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2011, 12:30:52 PM »

 Roll Eyes  LOL!  Roll Eyes
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
loosenut
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« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2011, 09:43:55 AM »

I traced the wiring from the small relays to a larger relay.  The larger clicks and has voltage coming out so I'm calling it good. 

I hit all 17 of the smaller relays with, my special electrical, hammer and knocked the cap off of one.  Watching the operation of the now bald relay, it seems that a warm relay is a good relay. 

I've two sizes of relays with the larger being 2"X2" all with the same part number and the smaller relays are smaller than an inch square and again they all have the same part number.
                                                                                 _
The smaller ones have 5 pins roughly in this pattern            || 
                                                                                 _
The || pins are dark and the others are lighter in color.

BK, I managed not to hurt myself while jumping on the dimmer switch which is activated by the blinker stalk.  The bright light signal illuminates on the dash properly.  If I activate the switch fully the dash high beam indicator stays lit and if I move it marginally the indicator light flashes as expected.  The actual head lights don't light.

I did this in the dark to give me better conditions to see if there was a quick flicker or a dim glow but there was nothing.

I'm going to the auto parts store to buy relays.  I'll let you know if that helps.

Mike

PS

You do understand that you need to use a special electrical hammer on those things, right?  Regular hammers just won't work.
Oh and Len, my truck driver cousin gave me not only a special electrical hammer but also an official Detroit spark plug tool and told me to keep my eye out for a left handed monkey wrench when I bought the bus.

I thought he was pulling my leg particularly when he mentioned the monkey wrench.  My grandfather used to send me to find his all the time.  However Steve, the cousin, took the time to explain that I would need it on a Detroit and it is indeed a joke when mentioned in conjunction with a gas motor.  I was glad he cleared that up.  He also warned me to be careful as each tool is very powerful.
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