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Author Topic: Totally, TOTALLY frustrated - Air compressor issue.  (Read 7114 times)
zubzub
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« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2011, 09:16:20 AM »

This may help
http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/haldex_d2_governor_service_data.htm
governors are cheap, I would just buy a new one for starters, especially as you have a new(rebuilt) comp.
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hargreaves
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« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2011, 09:45:25 AM »

Pull the govenor off the side of the compressor and make sure there is no 1/4 pipe plug in the unloader pilot hole.
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« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2011, 10:09:04 AM »

The governor has a exhaust port make sure you removed the plug it will be marked clearly

good luck
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luvrbus
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« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2011, 10:24:02 AM »

I would have thought a 4108 and the 4905 used the same compressor with the governor mounted on a horizontal plane
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Chaz
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« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2011, 10:26:18 AM »

Thanx guys. It's great to have all this info to come back to after lunch.  Smiley
Again..... I'm no diesel mechanic, obviously, but the governor regulates the psi, Correct?? ?? ?? It seems that I am getting the psi needed, just not the cfm's to get me there faster.
Hargreaves - I'll pull it off and check. But, I kinda doubt that. Wouldn't that totally keep it from working?
Zubzub - Thanx for the link!! It gives me an idea of what I am up against. I think mine is serviceable so I might pull it apart and clean it out. But again, would/could that have a major bearing on the cfm's?
Azdieselman - you and BK think alike.  Grin He was not a fan of the hose (hydraulic I think) on the exhaust side. I did pull it off and check it and it's not clogged. It actually seems fine but I'll look into replacing it. Oh, and..... Welcome!

My biggest concern it that if I take the gov. off and clean it - or even get a new one - that I get it set properly. The link tells a bit about it but......... it IS my first rodeo.  Grin Grin
Thanx a boat load!!!!!!!!!!
  Chaz
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« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2011, 10:31:37 AM »

Looking at the photos to me it looks like the governor is installed upside down I never saw one on a GM with the adjustment on the bottom,fwiw I never seen the problems you guys have with a governor all the time they are a real simple design not much to one 

good luck
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 11:31:31 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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zubzub
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« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2011, 10:45:51 AM »

it's more like the governor turns the comp to load mode until max psi is reached....then the comp is unloaded until you have used up the pressure (80-90 psi cut in depending on the bus etc..) then it tells the comp to load again.
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TedsBUSted
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« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2011, 10:51:58 AM »

Chaz - It sounds like you need more systematic troubleshooting.

If the unloader port were plugged, pressure would rise until system pressure reached relief valve blow-off pressure.

Restricted discharge will diminish performance. If the discharge plumbing is "coked up" that would do it. Worn compressors often pass oil which with heat the oil "cokes" discharge plumbing. Usually that also brings high discharge temperature, at even low flows.

Cracking  the discharge line at the pump head and again further down the line, to compare flow rates, may help to pinpoint a restriction. For example, if while pumping, the system is at a low pressure, -say 30psi- but cracking a fitting gives flow velocity comparable to a 100psi system pressure, then it's a safe bet that a restriction exists downstream from that point.

As mentioned, a restricted intake will drastically cut performance.

Ted
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 11:30:59 AM by TedsBUSted » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2011, 11:46:37 AM »

Chaz,
Ted is right, as far as it goes. If I were you I'd disconnect the inlet from the compressor and adapt it to the shop air with a shut off valve.

If I recall correctly, there was a LOT of crud coming from your original compressor. There is a big possibility that the wet tank and maybe even the subsequent tanks are loaded with so much crap that the engine compressor can't function.

When was the last time you drained all the tanks? I know I didn't do it, and there was sludge coming from the engine shut down line and Skinner valve. (That's why I set up the easy pull cable to shut the engine down from the side of the bus). There was no time to find the problem with the Skinner valves.

If you want to, you can call me, and I'll walk you through cleaning all those air lines out. Just beware..... I'm going to tell you to get some air line antifreeze, about 2 gallons of it. If you can't get that, you'll need to get a couple of cases of rubbing alcohol.
My phone number is 843.496.9176 leave a message.... I give it out all the time and have learned not to answer..... it's amazing the spam you can get.

And for all of you that will holler about the alcohol killing the desiccant in the air dryer........... He ain't got one! Next caveat is the alcohol killing the air lines and diaphragms... it might, but those will be small easily fixed leaks and can be taken care of at leisure.

Good Luck Chaz... We're pullin' for ya.... Keep your stick on the ice!
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Chaz
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« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2011, 12:05:53 PM »

Ok, since my last post, I pulled the gov. and opened it up......................................YUCK!!!!!!! Man, it had a bunch of crud - kind of on the harder side type crud - in it. I cleaned it out with spirits as recommended by the link.
I ran up to NAPA for a couple new O-rings. It had the green AC rings in it but I could only get the black ones in that size.... They didn't fit. When I put them on, the piston would not slide in so I re-used the old ones. They "looked" OK but...(??) I lubed everything up with Marvel air tool oil. (hope that works) Now I guess we put it on and try it. I'm hoping, however this thing works, that cleaning it might have helped. Like I said earlier, with both inlet and outlets open on the compressor, it didn't seem to have a lot of cfm. So would that have any bearing on what you are calling "restricted discharge", Ted?? I'm not sure how to gauge "flows" unless it's "by ear" or "feel". And the intake is wide open to the compressor. Only about a 3" tube between the intake and atmosphere.

Question: where the gov. is attached, there is 2 holes for the bolts and a middle one for unloader port. There is this same configuration on both sides of the compressor. "SHOULD" one side be plugged and the one, where the gov. is, be open?? I can stick an allen wrench 1.5"+ in the side where the gov. goes but the other side is in a bad place to be able to do that. (see pic.)

Thanx again guys!!
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luvrbus
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« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2011, 12:22:06 PM »

The one on the compressor side is open the outside is plugged 3 ports for the unloader 1 on each side and 1 in the middle

good luck
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robertglines1
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« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2011, 12:25:28 PM »

I think in the beginning he said it worked but just really slow. If that be the case. It should be installed correctly. hopefully the cleaning of the governor will help.
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TedsBUSted
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« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2011, 12:36:17 PM »

The "extra" governor mounting flanges are alternate locations so that the same pump can be used on various applications; the unused ports should be plugged.

If it's suspected that the governor is unloading the compressor partially, or early, then a performance test could be run with the governor removed from the pump. Of course there will be no unloading, so the engine should be stopped before dangerously high pressures  are reached. Pressure rise of course will be no faster than if the governor would be in place, so there's no danger of sudden pressure spike.

I guess I can't describe an exact scientific way to evaluate the "fitting cracking" test, except to compare results  to shop air velocities, which you may be familiar with. The poor flow while "idling" the open compressor is suspicious. But then again, flow volume  at idle won't be spectacular. Inlet suction is a good indicator of pump performance, but, other than comparing to past experience of how much suction a pump places on a finger, I don't know how to describe a comparable. No chance that the shipping plug which robertglines1 mentioned was partially left behind? Sometimes the plug is paper.

FWIW, in the pictures it looks as if at some time in the past the  discharge hose could have been replaced with smaller and more restrictive hose than OE design. In the picture it looks like #8 with a tight bend, if so, that's restrictive. Right now though the compressor should at least be able to reach past performance with that same hose.

Ted
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 12:54:46 PM by TedsBUSted » Logged

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zubzub
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« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2011, 12:48:49 PM »

also if there is so much crud in the line going to the wet tank that it is blocked, the gov will think it has achieved full pressure and unload the comp.  That would be a lot of crud though.  Hey maybe he is hydro locked with a wet tank full of sludge..
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2011, 01:29:58 PM »

Y'all are all correct in the areas you mention. BUT the problem is the COMPRESSOR is not sucking in or putting out hardly any air!

He  took off the discharge line and held his finger over the outlet and it hardly blew his finger off it and took like 3o seconds or so to build enough pressure to do that.

So checking lines, cracking fittings, and cleaning lines and tanks is not going to solve the problem until he gets air pressure out of the compressor first.

He did find one port that was missing a plug and plugged it and is now recharging batteries because they are down from the starting it and short run times he's been doing testing have not gave them time to recharge.

Some where there is a reason it's stopping the compressor from pumping as it should.
Grin  BK  Grin
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Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
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