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Author Topic: Our new bus! 1964 PD4106  (Read 3249 times)
RnMAdventures
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« on: September 07, 2011, 08:49:39 PM »

We picked up our new bus a couple of days ago and the whole family really likes it. It is a 1964 PD4106-2626. It has the Allison V730 transmission and sheperd power steering. The gentleman I purchased it from got it back in 1987 and started converting it then. I almost purchased this bus from him back in 2006, but life happened and I backed out. It is a lot better than my old 4104 and 1000 times better than the Coachmen I just sold.

Attached is a picture of it in our driveway and this link has some detailed photos of it. http://rides.webshots.com/album/549533367xIrJBw?vhost=rides



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Mike & Rosemarie
1964 PD4106-2626
DD8v71 & Allison v730
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« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2011, 09:00:35 PM »

Grin  Congratulations!  Grin

Grin             BK           Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
RnMAdventures
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« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2011, 10:58:54 PM »

Thanks BK!  Good grief, you have a lot of buses!
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Mike & Rosemarie
1964 PD4106-2626
DD8v71 & Allison v730
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« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2011, 03:01:59 PM »

Thanks BK!  Good grief, you have a lot of buses!

He operates a charter co.
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There are three kinds of people in this world....those that make things happen, those that watch things happen, and those that just wonder what the heck is happening. Which one are you?

1977 MCI Crusader MC-8
8V71N/740
95% converted (they're never really done, are they?)
Kevinmc5
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« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2011, 03:45:21 PM »

Looking good. I'm sure your going to have good times in it. We bought a 4106 1964 about 4 weeks ago. Has not seen our driveway yet motor is being rebuilt. Good luck and thanks for the pics.
Kevin
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1964 4106-2471 8v71 Boise ID Driving any place I can Fit
Barn Owl
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PD4106-1063 "Wheezy Bus"




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« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2011, 04:40:23 PM »

I am amazed at how many old GMs are still out there, obviously the 4106 is my favorite. Congratulations on a nice bus. I like your dash better than the original setup, what model bus did it come out of? You will never have to worry about misplacing your sink faucet, YEEOWEE!  Cheesy
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L. Christley - W3EYE Amateur Extra
Blue Ridge Mountains, S.W. Virginia
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« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2011, 05:08:25 PM »

That dash is identical to the one in my 4104
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Scott
Based out of Jasper, TX, but am hardly ever there

1958 GMC PD4104-2345
DD 6-71
Spicer 4 speed
RnMAdventures
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« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2011, 05:45:18 PM »

Thanks guys!

thomasinnv:  Grin Well that makes sense lol.

Kevinmc5: Same year as mine! That's cool your starting with a fresh engine. Are you doing an inframe rebuild?

Barn Owl: The GM's are my favorite bus's. If they are taken care of they care they will last forever. I will ask the gentleman I bought it from and see if he changed the dash.

It has dash air like a car that runs off the engine. I really like that feature on it.
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Mike & Rosemarie
1964 PD4106-2626
DD8v71 & Allison v730
Red Rider
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« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2011, 05:55:24 PM »

Congrats you two. I'm the proud owner of 1885. I hope you enjoy your 06 as much as we do. we've traveled a little over 6000 miles this year and basically it's been trouble free (so far).

The detailed information that I have been able to collect from this board is one big reason why we've been able to do what we have.

Safe travels
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Mike AKA; Red Rider 4106-1885
RnMAdventures
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« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2011, 08:03:12 PM »

Congrats you two. I'm the proud owner of 1885. I hope you enjoy your 06 as much as we do. we've traveled a little over 6000 miles this year and basically it's been trouble free (so far).

The detailed information that I have been able to collect from this board is one big reason why we've been able to do what we have.

I agree the folks on this board are a great resource of information. I really like hearing about folks like yall traveling many miles trouble free.
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Mike & Rosemarie
1964 PD4106-2626
DD8v71 & Allison v730
technomadia
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« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2011, 12:01:31 AM »

Congratulations on the bus, she is a beauty!

It has dash air like a car that runs off the engine. I really like that feature on it.

That is a superb feature, and I'd love to hear more about this.  We are looking for ways to improve the cooling of our 4106 interior, particularly while underway.  How is this dash air set up?  Where are the components located?

Thanks!!!

   - Chris
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Cherie and Chris / www.technomadia.com
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RJ
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« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2011, 01:11:24 AM »

Mike -

Congrats on your purchase!  Looks like a nice coach, and now the fun REALLY begins!   Grin

Oh, and FYI, PD4106-2626 was delivered new in April of 1964 as fleet number V-755 to Vermont Transit Company, based out of Burlington, VT.

Mike (Red Rider) -

FYI, PD4106-1885 was delivered new in April of 1963 as fleet number 126 to "LTR", aka Las Vegas - Tonopah - Reno Stage Lines, based out of Las Vegas, NV.  Good possibility this was one of the coaches LTR purchased to haul employees out to the nuclear test site outside Vegas, which means the baggage bins were never even opened!  Clifford Moon down in Tucson also has an ex-LTR coach.  LTR was a good operator until the original family sold it, and the new owners literally ran it into the ground.

Kevin -

I can give you the original purchaser history on your "new" 4106 if you'll share the VIN.

Laryn -

Mike's coach has a 4104 dashboard (Scenic's are very similar), which is much more "bus" than the lousy OEM '06 dash - a cost-cutting measure by GM  shared w/ the same vintage Fishbowls.  Lots of protest howls by '06 buyers, fell mostly on deaf ears until the 4107s came out, and vastly improved on the 4108/4905s.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
Fresno CA
RnMAdventures
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« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2011, 02:28:00 AM »

Mike -

Congrats on your purchase!  Looks like a nice coach, and now the fun REALLY begins!   Grin

Oh, and FYI, PD4106-2626 was delivered new in April of 1964 as fleet number V-755 to Vermont Transit Company, based out of Burlington, VT.



Thanks RJ! I was curious about that.

Below is a picture from the gentleman I bought it from and it dates back to 1987. Is this the origial colors of the coach at the Vermont Transit Company?

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Mike & Rosemarie
1964 PD4106-2626
DD8v71 & Allison v730
desi arnaz
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« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2011, 06:08:48 AM »

i think Vermont transit was green? and white.
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=vermont+transit+history&um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&sa=N&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1276&bih=894&tbm=isch&tbnid=JBH28OWGe_hNnM:&imgrefurl=http://www.norcalbusfans.fotki.com/vermont/vermont-transit/vermontv916fjpg.html&docid=GtjgI5TxOtVV3M&w=800&h=521&ei=zBBqTu6NO6av0AGc-7SEDg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=479&vpy=228&dur=1043&hovh=181&hovw=278&tx=194&ty=97&page=3&tbnh=109&tbnw=167&start=59&ndsp=30&ved=1t:429,r:20,s:59
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thomas f  Bethlehem n.h
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« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2011, 09:23:03 AM »

After a very close look at the instrument panel (dash) on this PD-4106.
Folks it's NOT a PD-4104 Instrument panel (dash) but better than that It's a PD-4501 Scenicruiser Instrument Panel(dash)Look close folks there is a difference between the two.
Hint "Drive Axel Loaded" Grin
jlv
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Kevinmc5
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« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2011, 03:40:46 PM »

RJ
The Vin PD4106-2471 1964 GM. Some of you down south might know the bus the PO was Ben Polly. Thanks RJ will be looking forword to your info
Kevin
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1964 4106-2471 8v71 Boise ID Driving any place I can Fit
RnMAdventures
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« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2011, 03:48:50 PM »

Congratulations on the bus, she is a beauty!

It has dash air like a car that runs off the engine. I really like that feature on it.

That is a superb feature, and I'd love to hear more about this.  We are looking for ways to improve the cooling of our 4106 interior, particularly while underway.  How is this dash air set up?  Where are the components located?

Thanks Chris, sorry I missed this post yesterday.
I will send you some pics and the information on the setup. I think he set it up in a day or two. I think he has the info posted on the internet.
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Mike & Rosemarie
1964 PD4106-2626
DD8v71 & Allison v730
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« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2011, 04:33:55 PM »

Mike
I would like to see how your in dash air works. I was going to look into a defrost to. As mine does not have one.
Thanks Kevin
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1964 4106-2471 8v71 Boise ID Driving any place I can Fit
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« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2011, 04:34:18 PM »

Mike & Rosemarie

If possible could you post the info on your dash A/C here on the board? I to am interested in a way to supplement my roof air.

Thanks

TM
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Steve & Kristen Full time nomads since '06 - PD4106-674  8V71/V730
RJ
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« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2011, 08:31:17 PM »

JLV -

Very well could be a Scenic dash, but we'll need a close-up pic of whatever that is centered above the steering wheel.  To me, it looks a bit like a clock.  Also, it looks like somebody went to the time/effort to restore the tell-tale text, most are unreadable at this point in time.  Smart move!

I thought that light came on when you unloaded the tag axle on a Scenic. . . Oh, wait, that's what you mean - the drive axle is LOADED because the tag axle is UNLOADED.  Duh, senior moment, thinking bassackward.

Kevin -

PD4106-2471 was delivered new in March of 1964 as fleet number O-441 to Oklahoma Transportation Company, based out of Oklahoma City, OK.  I believe OTC was a Trailways affiliate, JLV above would have a better idea, since it's in his neck of the woods.


Chris & Cherie, Travelinman, Kevin and others -

FYI, the 4903 & 4905 model Buffalos came with a dashboard driver HVAC that ran off the main system.  So there is an evaporator unit under the dash that will fit the 4106, since they're basically the same.  Uses the defroster vents, and on the 4905, there was a supplemental vent on the left side of the instrument cluster.

There are a couple of challenges to this swap.  One is that the squirrel cage blower motors are 24 volt.  It's been awhile, but I think the motor/squirrel cage mounting plate's bolt circle pattern is the same as just about any GM automobile's HVAC motor assembly from the same period.  If so, an easy swap to 12 volt.

The other challenge is actually something that a good HVAC technician shouldn't have any problem with, and that's sizing the condenser and compressor to the evaporator.  A little homework will be needed to come up with the cooling BTU specs for the dash HVAC, but they're out there.

Oh, and just a little bit of additional info: On a GM (and MCI, for that matter), when the HVAC is switched to A/C mode, the A/C unit runs full bore, and the temperature is regulated by adding heat from the heater core.  GM's been doing this for years in their automobiles, and I think a lot of folk will agree that A/C has always been one of their strong points, compared to Ford, Chrysler and others.  So, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!  Any good automotive HVAC technician will be familiar with this.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
Fresno CA
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« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2011, 09:30:01 AM »

Oklahoma Transportation Company the home office and garage was located on Exchange almost in downtown Oklahoma City,OK.
The above place is no more it's a vacant lot now sad to say. Cry
Oklahoma Transportation Company was bought by Jefferson Lines over 20 years ago.
Fred Rayman is the historian for Oklahoma Transportation Company.
Fred Lives in Oklahoma City,Oklahoma and can be found in the phone book.
MK&O Lines was the ones that pooled with Trailways RJ it was owned by the Allen Brothers in Tulsa,OK who also owned Oklahoma Transportation Company.
MK&O is no more as it's part of the Jefferson group.
jlv
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kingfa39
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« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2011, 11:35:10 AM »

Bus has a 4501 dash, the a/c has been talked about for yrs, it has two cooling units, one in the dash, one in the seat of the dinette, it works off a snko compresser and is driven from the engine. The bus also has a tilt steering and a smaller wheel from a 1950 transit bus. somewhere on here is a description, since i did this there have been at least 20 systems instlled that i know of. the btu , are 22500 and they do a nice job it is one of the best things i ever did to this bus.
  It was disheartning to see it go down the road with a new owner but i have health issues and cant keep up with it. yherefore instead of it sitting in my driveway and running down i decided to sell it and i did. i owned it for 25 yrs, conversion was done by me and took 4 yrs to complete. i didnt like the 4106 dash so i changed it for one i got from a 4501 owner who helped me a lot. bus has been all over the US and part of canada and has always come back home. thats about all i can say, im out of the bus business now and thats it, enjoyed the challenge and this board and all of the helpful people.
Frank Allen
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« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2011, 11:42:44 AM »

one more thing, if i ever buy another bus it will be a 4106 as i beleive it is the best bus for what we do thats out there. it is powerful fast and as efficient as any of them and more than most.
Frank Allen
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RnMAdventures
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« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2011, 03:36:06 PM »

Thanks for chiming in Frank! I purchased the bus from Frank. I took some pics of the AC Frank installed on the bus. You can see some of the components that you can use for this setup here: http://www.danhard.com I'm sure there are others, but this is one I had saved. When I had my 4104 I could not keep a genset running it seemed. I spent a lot of hours driving it while frying in my own fat because it didn't have openable windows and the genset wasn't working.

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Mike & Rosemarie
1964 PD4106-2626
DD8v71 & Allison v730
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« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2011, 03:37:04 PM »

More Pics
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Mike & Rosemarie
1964 PD4106-2626
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« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2011, 03:56:01 PM »

To add to the a/c question, the condeser is in front of radiator, it drives two ecaporators 22500 btu,s each one is mounted inthe dash where the original fire extinwshers were it is turned upright, the other is mounted in the rear dinette seat . if more info is needed let me know . this set up has been on the bus about 15 yrs or so , never had to touch it, rarely operate gen set on road but if you get a lot of people inside and the temp is triplle digiget you acn always start up the roof airs, ive only had to do this once when i had 6 adults and the temp got to 105, but only a little while. i do not want to depend on a gen set for colling, i dont think they are 100% safe, however ive never had a problem with this one.  and RJ the thing in the middle of the dash board is a clock i put in there and i restored the red warning lights that work all of them. 9i got a red piece of plexiglass and worked it out, lettering was done with white paint from a pencil type paint. took a while and a lot of trial and error, theres no where i know of to get these anymore
Frank  Allen
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RJ
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« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2011, 10:27:38 AM »

Frank -

Thanks for the update on the dashboard and a/c systems, very informative.

Also, excellent work on those tell-tale lights for the dash - agree that they've been out of production/availability for a long time!

Sent you a PM, too.

RJ
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RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
Fresno CA
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« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2011, 01:37:28 PM »

Sweet, that is what I call a good follow up!

As I am figuring our this system it all looks very possible to me except for one thing. I am not clear on how the compressor is driven. I see a shaft but it is unclear to me how that gets driven off the engine?  What engine is in this '06?  Any more photos and explanation would be great. Also, is the compressor located in the small bay behind the rear axle driver side?

I just may add this to my winter project list!

Thanks

TM
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Steve & Kristen Full time nomads since '06 - PD4106-674  8V71/V730
RJ
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« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2011, 07:21:05 PM »

TM -

Yes, the compressor is in the small bay behind the axle on the driver's side.  This is the same location as the OEM factory compressor was located, and driven by the same PTO shaft.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
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Fresno CA
RnMAdventures
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« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2011, 07:30:48 PM »

Attached is a diagram as I understand it. I will ask Frank to confirm it.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2011, 07:48:26 PM by RnMAdventures » Logged

Mike & Rosemarie
1964 PD4106-2626
DD8v71 & Allison v730
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« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2011, 09:12:43 PM »

Even more impressive, thanks!

It would appear that I am missing that PTO for the factory A/C. My '06 has been heavily modified during its life.

Any sources for that PTO??

Other that the missing PTO the system looks very possible.

Any thoughts on hanging the compressor on the engine and running the lines from there?

Thanks,

TM
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Steve & Kristen Full time nomads since '06 - PD4106-674  8V71/V730
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« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2011, 07:23:05 AM »

TM -

Are you sure you're missing the PTO?  It's hard to see from above, as it sits down low, between the hydraulic torus fan drive and the engine block on the driver's side of the powertrain.  Almost have to crawl underneath to see it.

You could hang a compressor off the engine, about the only place to drive it would be the cam pulley on the 8V.

Another possibility, many of the V-730s came with a PTO that was used for various reasons - A/C compressor, additional alternator, etc.  If you used one of these, the compressor basically ends up sitting on top of the transmission.  Geoff's RTS is configured this way, maybe he'll post a pic for you.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
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« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2011, 07:42:54 AM »

Thanks RJ, I will take a look for the PTO this week. I can say for sure that the drive shaft is missing . the rest will require further investigation.

TM
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Steve & Kristen Full time nomads since '06 - PD4106-674  8V71/V730
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