Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
December 21, 2014, 07:46:21 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you had an Online Subscription: By clicking on any ad, a hotlink takes you directly to the advertiserís website.
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Who's got DD3's?  (Read 2321 times)
bevans6
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4878


1980 MCI MC-5C




Ignore
« on: September 10, 2011, 02:40:08 PM »

I seem to be rebuilding not only my engine but the whole arse end of my bus, and I have skanky looking DD3's and hoses that have been on there way too long.  I'm gonna call Luke in the AM on Monday, but who else has DD3's?  My quasi plan is get rebuilds, and  save the cores or rebuild them as spares.  Someone said call MCI - has anyone asked if they have DD3's lately?

Thanks, Brian

BTW, if you ever install an engine in a MC-5C, make sure you prop the driveshaft up.  If you don't you spend all Saturday morning figuring out how to get it unhooked from under the flange on the transmission.  Answer - chassis up all the way, axle in full droop, undo all of the engine hold-down U-bolts and jack the gearbox up a quarter inch.  What a PITA...

Brian
Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13128




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2011, 06:01:08 PM »

Brian,I have a friend that this winter we are going to install wedge springs on his 9 from a Mack truck he is tried of fooling with the DD3.
I have another friend I can put you in touch with that just removed his DD3's one just needs a diaphragm he will probably make you a deal

good luck
Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
Lin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4604

1965 MC-5a




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2011, 06:58:06 PM »

I don't remember what rebuilt DD3's cost.  I think it was around $400. each.  There are rebuild kits though.  Ask Luke about that also.  I don't think you need any special equipment to do it, and the springs are not heavily loaded.  If Clifford's friend has good take offs, that may be a real deal.
Logged

You don't have to believe everything you think.
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13128




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2011, 07:12:25 PM »

MCI charges $525.00 plus a $375.00 core deposit for the DD3's the Transit models are $475.00

good luck
Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
gus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3546





Ignore
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2011, 07:22:57 PM »

My 4104 has regular spring brakes, the 4107 has DD3. The DD3 is a pain in the neck, regular wins hands down.
Logged

PD4107-152
PD4104-1274
Ash Flat, AR
Ericbsc
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 492


73 05


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2011, 09:08:52 PM »

I have a pair that I just removed from my 05 eagle. They were working fine when I removed them a couple months ago. I changed the entire axle and the new one has springs. P.M. me if you are interested.
Logged
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13128




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2011, 09:22:34 PM »

What did you do Eric change to a model 10 for the wider shoes ? Ed Brenner probably has a set too he changed over to springs on his Eagle a few years ago Manny should have a set also.
 
I sold 12 DD3's to a rebuilder in CA for 200 bucks each they are starting to get a little pricey and a good diaphragm is over a 100 bucks now if you can find a Bendix diaphragm Mohawk had Chinese made diaphragms for 80 bucks not long ago that all I could find so I sold the cores.
 
Brian last I checked Kirks was about 100 bucks ea cheaper than most places for the rebuilt DD3's but he was out of the left side
 
I have 2 new ones not rebuilt still in the box just waiting for some sucker lol  
 
Eagle people seem have those things laying around,kinda goes against Belfert's idea you shouldn't change the OEM brake system

good luck
« Last Edit: September 10, 2011, 10:04:58 PM by luvrbus » Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
bevans6
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4878


1980 MCI MC-5C




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2011, 04:41:16 AM »

I know you don't like PM's, so seeing as I've been known to be a sucker, what do you want for your two new DD3's, presuming they are a pair?

Brian
Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13128




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2011, 06:47:38 AM »

Brian, I need really to keep mine for the school and I was joking about the sucker lol but will sell them maybe.
I will tell you where I bought the new set for $575.00 each.
 
You are not going to believe it but he had plenty of new ones not his rebuilt jobs and that is REI yea the same REI of the Chaz post I never said I didn't buy new stuff from there I just don't buy his rebuilt crap lol 

good luck
Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
wal1809
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1339




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2011, 07:26:02 AM »

I googled DD3 and I still have zero clue as to what yall are talking about.  Can someone inmform the ignant party here?
Logged

1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
www.snakebreaker.com
trucktramp
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 262




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2011, 07:48:06 AM »

DD3 is a brake chamber.  Not like what you see on your everyday semi truck and much more pricey.
Logged

Dennis Watson
KB8KNP
Scotts, Michigan
1966 MCI MC5A
8V71
Spicer 4 Speed Manual
Jerry Wilson
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2011, 01:49:42 PM »

I know it can't be done but some how it just  happened,  I cut the old dd3 brackets off and welded on spring brakes plus changed around the air valves. We had an incident where the old emergency braking system didn't work[was exciting]But decided that was enough of a 40 year old design.10.000 miles  later i still think it's the best thing  to do      Jerry wilson  1966 4107
Logged
bobofthenorth
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2107



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2011, 02:01:25 PM »

I googled DD3 and I still have zero clue as to what yall are talking about.  Can someone inmform the ignant party here?

Just to expand a bit on the explanation already posted, DD3 are non-spring parking brake chambers that incorporate a locking mechanism so that when the system air bleeds off the brakes stay applied.  I don't have them and from what I've read/heard I'm really glad I don't and I don't understand why anyone who does have them wouldn't make the effort to change to maxis.
Logged

R.J.(Bob) Evans
1981 Prevost 8-92, 10 spd
My website
Our weblog
Simply growing older is not the same as living.
bevans6
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4878


1980 MCI MC-5C




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2011, 03:10:16 PM »

Thanks to all, i have some leads to follow up on tomorrow.  Ideally  new, because I rarely put a rebuilt anything in a brake system (just a habit I have from racing).  I was extremely disappointed and quite embarrassed when I got the first brake chamber out.  The parking brake and locking port lines were, to put it mildly, about 10 or 15 years past their sell-by date.  They were completely stiff, the outer layer fell off when I bent them, and where they were clipped to the differential the outer layer and the steel braid was completely gone.  I took one chamber off, took it apart, and it was in sad shape.  Diaphragm cracked, etc.  Really time for new ones.

Questions;

The main brake line is pipe thread at both ends.  I have no idea what the correct way is to fasten or unfasten a line that is pipe thread at both ends, the line can't rotate.  I undid the hose clamping part, but I don't know if that is right.

The DD3 clamping rollers ride on a steel ring that is pressed or fitted into the aluminium housing.  You can't get the locking piston out with that ring in the way.  What is the technique for removing that ring?

thanks, as always, excellent advice and feedback that I always try to reciprocate on when I know something that might help someone else.

Cheers, Brian

With honour and respect to the heroes of 911, on this day.
Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
busenthusiast
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 135




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2011, 05:22:03 PM »

bevans6, I rebuilt my DD3's back around first of the year. Got most of my parts from Luke and the process was pretty painless. That steel ring that you're talking about should just slide out of the bore after you remove the plastic retainer (held in place by four bolts). Mine did not want to come out easy, but I finagled it out. If memory serves me correct, after i removed the push plate and rod and the plastic retainer, I "gently" tapped the exit side of the housing against a piece of sacrificial wood and the ring eventually gave way.

As far as the brake lines are concerned, again mine were the same way. I just cut them after finding replacements, I found suitable ones from Grainger with swivels on the end and the mating fittings.
Logged
Ericbsc
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 492


73 05


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2011, 06:13:08 PM »

Clifford, I removed the axle and replaced it with one from a ten. Also changed to a 4:11.
Logged
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13128




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2011, 06:20:41 PM »

Eric you are a fast learner lol you fired the 60 series yet

good luck
Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
bevans6
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4878


1980 MCI MC-5C




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2011, 07:17:13 AM »

Well, the game is afoot...

I just ordered two brand new DD3 units from Rebuilders Enterprises Inc.  $595.00 each.  Rebuilt  units were available around a couple hundred less each.  The thing is - the new units are not Bendix, but are aftermarket.  So think of this as an experiment in quality control...   I am of two minds - Bendix units new would be great, but don't exist.  Rebuilt units - are rebuilt using aftermarket components on 30 year old cores.  Mine sucked - corrosion and corruption inside there.  If we want to really keep using our buses, aftermarket suppliers are going to be critical and we need to encourage them.

I'll post a review when I get them.

Brian
Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13128




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2011, 07:20:45 AM »

What brand Brian mine were Haladex/Midland I got from him

good luck
Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
bevans6
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4878


1980 MCI MC-5C




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2011, 07:34:23 AM »

I didn't ask, just not Bendix.  I would think the same brand as you got, unless there are hundreds of foundries in backyards in China ripping off expired patents...  He said they are piece for piece identical, so that's why I think that rebuilds are using the same parts.  I figure the difference is I am getting new castings, etc.

Brian
Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
Busted Knuckle
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6447


6 Setras, 2 MCIs, and 1 Dina. Just buses ;D


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2011, 07:44:29 AM »

Well, the game is afoot...

I just ordered two brand new DD3 units from Rebuilders Enterprises Inc.  $595.00 each.  Rebuilt  units were available around a couple hundred less each.  The thing is - the new units are not Bendix, but are aftermarket.  So think of this as an experiment in quality control...   I am of two minds - Bendix units new would be great, but don't exist.  Rebuilt units - are rebuilt using aftermarket components on 30 year old cores.  Mine sucked - corrosion and corruption inside there.  If we want to really keep using our buses, aftermarket suppliers are going to be critical and we need to encourage them.

I'll post a review when I get them.

Brian

Brian I wish you luck from REI!

This is the same outfit many have had bad experiences from.  Their bad reputation cost them a sale last week. I spent the churches $ @ Welch Industries instead & I know it cost us at least $400 more for the compressor. But I also got all I needed under one roof w/1 call! Most likely REI would not have had the A/C clutch, or the service valves needed.
But I know Chaz and others have had bad experiences with REI so I didn't wasted my time.

I used to get my DD3's from Jefferson in OKC (but that was before I knew of Luke & US Coach)
Grin  BK  Grin
Logged

Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13128




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2011, 07:46:23 AM »

Mine are made in Mexico by Haladex fwiw

good luck
Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
buswarrior
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3571


'75 MC8 8V71 HT740




Ignore
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2011, 03:26:49 PM »

For the casual viewers, the MCI coaches using DD3 (MC7/8/9/102) are not easily converted, as the whole axle assembly took advantage of the DD3's smaller size.

The larger spring portion of a spring brake chamber won't fit in the mounting space.

So, there have to be changes to the configuration of the application hardware, including new mounts for the chambers.

To my knowledge, no one that has made a work around has shared it via a tutorial online.

We will need a champion in this regard before much longer...

happy coaching!
buswarrior
Logged

Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area
belfert
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5475




Ignore
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2011, 03:47:47 PM »

BW, were you not just saying not to change to non-OEM brake chambers yet here you are advocating a complete re-engineering of the brake chamber mount on the axle to install a non-OEM type of brake chamber?  Maybe I read your other post wrong?
Logged

Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
Lin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4604

1965 MC-5a




Ignore
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2011, 04:24:09 PM »

Actually, I don't think that he was recommending switching out DD3's or saying it could not be done, just pointing out that it took some serious mods to do it.
Logged

You don't have to believe everything you think.
bevans6
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4878


1980 MCI MC-5C




Ignore
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2011, 05:17:35 PM »

looking at it, I think that changing to a larger chamber on my rear axle would require a completely new mounting for the axle, not just the chamber.  There is no place to rotate the chamber to that doesn't hit something significant.  I think you could do it if you removed the front shock absorber and the air bag spring and relocated them farther forward or, in the case of the spring, in board.  You would lose the whole air beam and then you would have to engineer a new way to transfer load into the bus.  Far cheaper to buy a new DD3, hence my experiment.  If these are good, then people can buy them with confidence.

You could design it to use a pair of 8" springs, like the front, instead of the single 12" spring, and might fit.  Etcetera.  The design makes what can be done on other buses not trivial.

Brian
Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13128




Ignore
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2011, 05:39:18 PM »

I think you can do it with a Cam Lever setup myself,between Sonnie Gray and me I bet we get it figured out this winter and Sonnie doesn't even know he is involved yet lol but if all else fails I'll install the wedge springs plenty of room for those it is just so much work 

good luck
Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
buswarrior
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3571


'75 MC8 8V71 HT740




Ignore
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2011, 06:14:34 PM »

I think I meant to type to stick with the OEM size in the other post?

Changing sizes changes the strength of the brakes and would mess with stopping performance.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
Logged

Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!