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Author Topic: in line fuel pump  (Read 2110 times)
desi arnaz
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« on: September 15, 2011, 04:19:12 PM »

dose anyone have an extra in line fuel pump they would want to part with?at a reasonable price. it only needs to be big enough for a diesel generator a few gallons per hour i would guess.not sure if i need a special one for diesel? my problem seems to be i am not getting enough pressure  to my Genny and after 30 min  she starts to sputter and slow down then she goes back to normal then sputters again. i have had different people tell me different things. some say  the bulb pump is at fault  others say it is a overheat problem but the engine is only 144 degrees and the intake is 89 degrees the exuast is about 245 when this happens but if i squeeze the bulb it goes back to normal.
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thomas f  Bethlehem n.h
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« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2011, 06:47:10 PM »

They are available at Advance Auto cheap.
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demodriver
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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2011, 07:28:02 PM »

Is your fuel tank vent working good?   fwiw I used one for "gas only" on my last cummins truck for about 4 years with no problems.
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belfert
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2011, 07:55:31 PM »

One would think if it runs for 30 minutes that the fuel pump might not be the issue.  If it is a fuel pump issue I would think it better to fix the fuel pump that is there now than just applying a bandaid with a second pump.

Those that add secondary pumps to their main engines only do so to prime in case of emergencies.  They are not intended to run full time.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
desi arnaz
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« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2011, 12:03:26 AM »

They are available at Advance Auto cheap.
$60 bucks at advance....the vents are fine,and the problem might be that I have 4 feet of fuel line from the tank and the pump just can't Handel it?
In case the in line was not the problem I didn't want to shell out $60 for a pump I didn't need.
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thomas f  Bethlehem n.h
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« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2011, 05:04:53 AM »

You wont find a inline pump much cheaper. It shouldnt matter how many ft of line there is. Once its primed it should work as a syphon for the most part.

You can get all the parts to put a cheap fuel pressure guage on it at the parts store.

What type of engine is on the generator? Does it have a pump that is rebuildable?  On a perkins engine of mine I have to take the pump apart and clean it every couple years. It has a built in screen to help filter the fuel.
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desi arnaz
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« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2011, 06:19:31 AM »

 11 hp Chinese brand with 4 hours on her.Ramsond Elite 6500 uses a true 186FA (E), 11 HP, 418 cc engine.
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thomas f  Bethlehem n.h
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« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2011, 06:20:26 AM »

I had to replace the pump on my genset (gas Onan) with one of those like Advance/NAPA/etc. sells. They are rated for 100% duty cycle. I even added a momentary switch so I can prime the long hose. It saves me a lot of cranking if the line gets air in it. I paid ~$45 for it several years ago. Glad to pay that and have it work because a replacement OEM Onan part was going to cost me a couple of bills.
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« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2011, 06:46:39 AM »

What do have the return line hooked into ?
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desi arnaz
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« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2011, 07:36:46 AM »

There is no return...that I know of.
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thomas f  Bethlehem n.h
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« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2011, 07:59:18 AM »

Having no return line maybe the problem right there.  I haven't ever seen a Diesel engine without a return line.  Diesel engines generally run alot more Diesel fuel through their lines to both lubricate and cool the injection pump.  Without the return line, I could understand how the engine might not run correctly.  Try opening up the genset and look at the injection pump.  You'll probably see another line coming off of it with some kind of cover on it blocking it off.  I would try opening that up and try running the generator with the newly opened return line with a hose coming to a fuel tank for the time being-to see if that cures the problem. Then you can plumb it back to your fuel tank the proper way later.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2011, 03:16:30 PM »

I'm pretty sure that all diesels have return lines. As posted, that is probably your problem.
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desi arnaz
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« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2011, 03:40:20 PM »

all i have done is remove the fuel line from the tank and attached a fuel line to a outboard motor tank, if  there was a return to the tank,would i then have a bloody mess of diesel oil all over the engine compartment? i have no messes now.
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thomas f  Bethlehem n.h
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« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2011, 03:59:49 PM »

It sounds like someone blocked off the return line.  You need to look at the injection pump (what kind of engine is it?) and find the return line.  On my Kubota, the return line comes off of the last fuel injector at the top of the head-maybe there.  Can you take a picture of the engine?  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
desi arnaz
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« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2011, 06:31:28 PM »

186FA (E), 11 HP, 418 cc engine.
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thomas f  Bethlehem n.h
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« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2011, 08:39:54 PM »

Air cooled 3600 rpm.......
http://www.amazon.com/Ramsond-Portable-Silent-Generator-SHIPPING/product-reviews/B001QGS6LC/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_5?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addFiveStar
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Donald PH
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« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2011, 09:11:45 PM »

I have seen similar symptoms from time to time.   It was debris in the tank/lines.  As the unit sucks fuel the intake/filter slowly plugs up.  When you stop the engine and suction goes away, the debris falls off the pickup/filter and the engine appears to start and run normally for a while until the debris collects again. 

Someone above suggested plumbing in a fuel pressure gauge between the makeup pump and the injection pump just like many of the Detroits have.  Sound like a logical way to find out what is happening.

Does the manual give any hints as to whether there is a return, as in fuel flow diagram etc?  If there is a return and you are feeding from another tank is the fuel level in the fixed tank increasing?

Good luck
Don 4107
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Don 4107 Eastern Washington
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« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2011, 09:28:39 PM »

Those little engines have a gravity flow and I think he is installing a larger and different tank,he is not real clear on what he is trying to accomplish but if he does not have a gravity feed he will need a pump of some kind
He is doing good his has ran longer that I ever could get one to run with out throwing craps the only diesel engine I ever found you could buy new for 350 bucks lol  

good luck
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 09:34:57 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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desi arnaz
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« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2011, 04:29:50 AM »

Clean. And new tanks and filters. Tank sits on shelf above height of engine. No fuel returning into stock tank.
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thomas f  Bethlehem n.h
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« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2011, 06:39:29 AM »

  Clean. And new tanks and filters. Tank sits on shelf above height of engine. No fuel returning into stock tank.

OK, I've seen the photos on the Ramsond website.  You're saying that there is a fuel tank inside the yellow cabinet housing?   How do you get fuel into that (fuel can and funnel)?  But somehow you have a fuel supply problem within the yellow housing and you're looking for a pump to pressurize the fuel feed from that internal tank to the generator's engine injection pump?  And do you mean that you had a new tank and filters before the fuel supply problems started?  If everything is self-contained within that housing, you've got an unusual and challenging problem. 
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
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desi arnaz
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« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2011, 06:58:34 AM »

OK lets try this again.    there is a fuel tank inside the housing, i don't use that one but instead i use a outboard motorboat tank with a squeeze primer bulb.the tank is a little higher than the Genny so i should have plenty of gravity to push the fuel through. the tank is brand new as  is the Genny with only 4 hours on her. if there was some type of return the on-board tank would be leaking allover the Genny but i have no leakage.the on-board tank has a filler on the top which if it was not in a bulkhead would be easy to fill.
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thomas f  Bethlehem n.h
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« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2011, 07:49:12 AM »

This may sound weird-but gasoline tanks are not made for Diesel Fuel.  Although a Diesel Fuel tank will tolerate gasoline.  I'm wondering if that squeeze bulb maybe disintegrating from the inside out (Diesel is very toxic compared to gasoline).  I would change to an aluminum tank and install a 5psi electric fuel pump.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2011, 07:55:42 AM »

  OK lets try this again.    there is a fuel tank inside the housing, i don't use that one but instead i use a outboard motorboat tank with a squeeze primer bulb.the tank is a little higher than the Genny so i should have plenty of gravity to push the fuel through. the tank is brand new as  is the Genny with only 4 hours on her. if there was some type of return the on-board tank would be leaking allover the Genny but i have no leakage.the on-board tank has a filler on the top which if it was not in a bulkhead would be easy to fill. 


OK, thanks.  That's clear.  If your boat tank is indeed supplying fuel, I don't see how an inline fuel pump will help you -- except "cover up" a problem like clogged filter which should be fixed.  Is the fuel hose and bulb diesel rated?  Some people have had problems with non-diesel fuel lines deteriorating or swelling up and causing a fuel stoppage.  But if the boat tank is higher than the stock tank (assuming that the stock tank feeds by gravity) and you have confirmed that it's indeed supplying fuel, then it seems to me that your problem has got to be somewhere else in the generator.  But I'd suspect that tank and lines - maybe you need a tank vent or maybe the lines or bulb are a problem.

(OK, I see that TomC is thinking along the same lines as I am.)
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
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« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2011, 08:20:37 AM »

I wouldnt be surprised if the lines, primer pump, or something else is falling apart and may be clogging the injector pump or filter.

Good luck
Eric

FWIW I have a friend who can build you a custom stainless steal tank for your dimensions.
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desi arnaz
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« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2011, 11:19:14 AM »

after 4 hours of use?  the hose was supposed to be good for diesel so says Napa. the filter is only 4 hours of use...when i remove the bulb it still dose the same thing.   if the tube was falling apart i would see flecks of it in the see through filter.
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thomas f  Bethlehem n.h
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« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2011, 11:24:28 AM »

Man just install you a 29.00 inline pump from Auto/Zone or one those outfits if it works problem solved if not take the pump back and look else where
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« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2011, 11:33:51 AM »

Does it run if you use the real fuel tank the way it was designed?  Maybe there is a pump inside that tank or something.

Brian
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« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2011, 12:07:02 PM »

Can the OP confirm that he changed the fuel filter? A couple of others mentioned it and he didn't respond and a blocked filter would give these exact symptoms when it runs for a while then chokes then after sitting for a while for the vacuum to equalize through the clogged filter it will run again for a while.

I don't have much bus experience to share with the board but I've driven diesel mercedes for 10 years and got my hands dirty so I have some experience with diesel.

The simplest explanation is often the correct one :-)

Cheers, Paul.
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desi arnaz
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« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2011, 12:19:35 PM »

4 hours on the whole machine  filter and all clean as a whistle. if i had an autozone and they were $29 i would but even at autozone they are $60 only thing i do see is at the bottom of the fuel filter i see a disc that sits there,is it supposed to float?
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thomas f  Bethlehem n.h
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« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2011, 12:24:48 PM »

Do you have a O'Rilley's or Car Quest in your area they have the little impact pumps for 24 bucks at least they do here,WalMart has it also they are called Micro pumps highest price I saw on one was a Mr. Gasket for 35 dollars they will work fine for what you are trying to do  

good luck
« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 12:35:33 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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