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Author Topic: Tire prices 2011  (Read 2917 times)
rcbeam
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« on: September 22, 2011, 05:58:42 PM »

Have been reading archive posts on the boards for a week now researching tires.  Pondering the age old question of new/recap, 11R/12R,etc.  I have a MC8.  The bus came to me with 10 year old tags.  Drives are a little better I think in age, but figure they are probably 7'ish.  Haven't found the dates on the drives yet.  I think they must be on the inside so I'll have to take off the wheel to check.  Anyway I'm figuring that I'll need 6 tires.  I replaced the two steers last summer with Firestones. Out the door cost was $998 and change for the pair. 

I went to one of the local bandag shops close to me... great guys and very helpful.  He spent right at two hours with me talking tires, looking at specs, pricing, and also gave me a tour of the plant.  They actually do the recap at this location.  I was impressed with everything I saw and all that he explained.  The shock came with pricing.  They can't get 12R22.5 like I have now except in Bridgestone and they will cost me $4360. for the 6 tires.  OUCH.  This is out the door costs.  I can go to 11R24.5 also in Bridgestone for $3465 but I'll have to buy new wheels.  I can get 11R24.5 bandag's for $2130 out the door, but again I have to buy 6 wheels.  I am ball parking wheels @ $150 each.  Hoping for less.  This makes the 11R24.5 Bridgstones slightly less than the 12R22.5, however the bandags are of course the cheapest.  They would be cheaper if I had good casings, but mine are too old.

I'm going to check my dates on the drives and stew about this until next week, but right now I'm thinking of doing the 11R24.5 bandag on the rears with new wheels.  Just in case anyone else is going through the tire issue, this may give you some more info for thought.

Russell
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Russell
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« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2011, 06:05:58 PM »

  $499 each for brand new Firestone steers, and $716 each for recaps? Kind of a no brainer to me, put 6 new Firestones on it.
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« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2011, 06:39:24 PM »

Russel, Can I assume that you can't do a repeat deal on the Firestones? Inflation? What's the weight rating on the 11R24.5's? I'm still contemplating a set of Ohtsu's since I'm stuck here for a couple more months yet. This is the first time I've ever parked for any period of time and didn't bother putting her on wood (Tires are shot anyway LOL)
Will
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« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2011, 08:38:40 PM »

Bandag caps are good they are subsidiary of of Bridgestone/Firestone I never had a problem running Bandag caps on my trucks and trailers they are not your dads caps lol

good luck
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« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2011, 09:36:06 PM »

My crown has 11R24.5 firestone recaps on the rear, and I'm not going to tell you how old they are, but they look brand new - always been covered and jacked up.  They are quiet and don't vibrate or anything, and I'm going to roll the dice on them until next summer probably before my next big trip.  I just got new yokohama's installed on the front.  I believe they are regional steers.  I don't know what their reputation is as a tire, but they were 400 ea balanced and installed, and aren't loud on the highway.
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« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2011, 04:00:18 AM »

I am getting new, off brand, 315-80s in the chicago area in the 450 range. These fit the 22.5 rims and are the next size bigger. They are way more common around here than 12-22.5s

Toyo Yokohama Double-coin to name a few.

I stopped buying caps that were on cases that I have no idea where they came from long ago. The risk is just not worth the savings when I can get new for 400 dollar range.
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« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2011, 04:04:10 AM »

Put four  caps on goodyear caseings on this summer, 12r 22.5 for 1,300 mounted and balanced, had to do some shopping around, recap prices seem to be whatever the tire guys want to dream up.
Matt
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« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2011, 04:12:35 AM »

I read several pretty in depth articles on the Chinese brands vs American brands.  The only detrimental thing they say about any of the Chinese brands are stopping distance.  In a full skidding brake situation the Chinese brands did not stop as fast as some of the American brands.   They still passed the standards testing to be sold here.

I have heard horror stories about Chinese tires time and again.  My brother in law was shocked that I would consider it.  I asked him why and his answer was "They just suck".  I asked for specific information like component materials ect. and of course he was not able to give it.  So I researched.  All the required componants are exactly the same.  Heck in my research I found out Michelin owns the Double coin car tire factory in China.  The drive out price on a Ling Long or Double Coin tire is about $350 to $400.  Drive out on a Michelin is $700 to $800.  I would much rather buy something built right here in America from American materials by American hands.  I will when the American industry sells a product at a fair price.
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« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2011, 04:52:47 AM »

Just put 8 tires down. The 6 on back, Chinese, at 400 bucks and 2 Michelin on front at 750 bucks. The guy told me (Forrest Tire, Odessa Tx.)  that all the major tire boys have factories in China. I guess it's us looking for the cheapest crap we can buy. Our boys can't compete with that 1.00 a hour labor!
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« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2011, 05:54:42 AM »

Paul-the recaps were $355.00 each.  Recaps are fine for the rears.  Although, I saw the Bandag bus and he was running them in all positions-and at a lower pressure to boot!  UPS runs recaps on their delivery cars in all positions. Just remember what is riding on your tires-everything!  As mentioned they also determine stopping distances.  Tires are much more then just big round black rubber things that support your bus.  In my opinion-tires and brakes are two areas where you don't want to be cheap.

Changing from 12R-22.5's to 11R-24.5 (what I did) is a good choice.  The 11R-24.5 is easier to find when on the road, they are cheaper, they carry almost the same weight when in 16ply, you go from 485 to 476 revs per mile and they will make the bus about 1/2" higher.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2011, 07:32:27 AM »

I run 7 gravel trains up here in Michigan, were allowed 11 axles, 160,000 + lbs. That's 42 tires on each vehicle. I've seen the destruction a cap does when it comes apart, and I'm talking about steel trailers with 1/4" plate framing. I've had trucks limp back with sections of the aluminum boxes ripped off from a cap that came loose and beat it to death before it finally let go and laid dead on the road for the next vehicle to dodge. Caps are a necessary evil in trucking but I will never have them on my personal vehicles. The amount you save won't compare to the damage that can happen, and that's just on the financial end of it. We've all seen the treads laying on the side of the highway, I'm sure the salesman said they were a quality tread.
As for the imports, does anyone still believe you can buy a tire made in America. Michelin has slowed down production in china only because of the import tax hike on chinese tires coming to the u.s., and now they are building a new facility in Mexico to skirt the taxes and still remain the most expensive tire. I'm not saying they don't manufacture any here but a percentage of what they import. 
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« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2011, 03:02:57 AM »

  All retreads/recaps arent all the same. Bandag cuts the tread off the casing down into clean rubber almost into the cord, then rotates the casing while a ribbon of virgin rubber is strung on like you would thread on a bobbin. Then the bugger is placed in a mould and baked in an over to cure.

  All the other ones are "caps", basically a giant rubber band of moulded tread, stretched and slipped over the casing, and "glued" on. And those are the big tread hunks we generally see on the road. I dont believe a Bandag would sling off its tread like that.

  But any tire can sling off tread off the casing, they dont have to be retreads.

  All said and done however, I cannot see any justification in paying more for a Bandag than ANY virgin tire, Firestone, Chinese, or whatever. And while I would be among the first to buy foreign if price were a big issue, I wont buy Chinese unless there is no other choice. And then I would rather buy used.
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wal1809
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« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2011, 04:05:13 AM »


  All said and done however, I cannot see any justification in paying more for a Bandag than ANY virgin tire, Firestone, Chinese, or whatever. And while I would be among the first to buy foreign if price were a big issue, I wont buy Chinese unless there is no other choice. And then I would rather buy used.
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How come?
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desi arnaz
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« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2011, 10:35:01 AM »

i found 11 22.s bandags for @$222 in lancaster nh  sounds good to me.
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« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2011, 11:00:55 AM »

Bandag uses both the hot mold and cold mold process.  With the hot mold-as described the tire is ground down to just above the belts then a hot ribbon of virgin rubber is rotated on.  They then quickly put the tire into the mold with the tread then it is baked.  I don't believe even Bandag is using this method anymore.
The other cold mold is where the tire is ground down just above the steel belts.  Then glue is applied and a preformed tire tread is rotated onto the tire.  Then this is also baked.
It has been proven over and over again that nearly half of the tire treads you see on the side of the road are from brand new tires.  The number one, by a far shot, reason for tire failure-running the tire low on air pressure.  The best investment to preserving your tires is to have some sort of wireless tire pressure monitoring system-like PressurePro.  I have it on my bus and towed and never have had a blow out yet.  All should also have a 50ft air hose that ties into the air pressure system of the bus to be able to air your tires up at any time.  Even with a nail in the tire-you can keep airing the tire up to get to the next tire shop and avoid possible tire failure ($$$$).  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2011, 12:11:47 PM »

How about visiting your local, friendly, knowledgeable, INEXPENSIVE heavy duty truck wrecking yard and ask about any good used take off tires and aluminum wheels?  These are good items taken off wrecked trucks that don't need them anymore but you may.

I was going to put good used 11RX24.5 Michelins on Alcoha wheels for my Crown Supercoach RV project, but finally rejected the deal because the tires, while being at about 75% tread and in excellent condition, were amost five years old.

Four $grand$ for ten (10) tires and alloy wheels, with close inspection, studs, nuts, acorns, truing, balancing and installation.  The point is that sometimes less expensive options for us Bus Conversions people are available.  HB of CJ (cheap old coot)
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« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2011, 03:51:03 PM »


How come?

  Google Chinese submarines and see if their a country we should be financing.
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« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2011, 03:27:21 AM »


How come?

  Google Chinese submarines and see if their a country we should be financing.
I look at it as kind of being in the funnel.  We are going through the spout but right now we are just circling the funnel.  Artvonne this country will not get out of the global trade.  I am just like you and I wish but it will not happen now.  I just can't figure out why an American company can't make a tire and sell it cheaper than the Chinese who have to ship it half way around the world.  It kinda ticks me off.
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wayne
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« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2011, 04:44:28 PM »

Heres what I can tell you from real experience of 300+ tires being driven down the road daily being abused with heavy weight limits and on and off road conditions.
I have had blowouts with both new tires and caps including bandag but I have never lost a tread off a new tire, only caps including bandag. Some of my caps actually last as long as a new tire (no name chinese tires only).
My new name brand tires outperform the caps in every aspect including fuel mileage and longevity.
The exception to all this are the Michelin super singles. My buddy runs 13 Mich super trains and swears the caps aroutlasting the new tires drastically, but I do not run any of them

Typically date codes are the issue with busnuts and caps are definetly going to be older.
This is just personal experience logged in by me. This info is not from a google search or study I read about so I hope it helps.

Good Luck
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« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2011, 05:11:46 PM »

I visit Cole's heavy haul division in Houston his trucks loaded with 100+ tons will rip the tread off new tires on the drivers the only tire manufacture that will warranty that is Bridgestone when he buys a new truck he orders Bridgestones not that a bus would rip one apart I just find it fascinating a truck could do that to a new tire 

good luck   
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« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2011, 10:43:03 PM »


How come?

  Google Chinese submarines and see if their a country we should be financing.
I look at it as kind of being in the funnel. 

  Were going down something alright, but I dont think its a funnel. If you didnt google the above yet, try it by adding "aircraft carrier", and read a ways. Its quite fascinating.
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« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2011, 11:28:24 PM »


How come?

  Google Chinese submarines and see if their a country we should be financing.
I look at it as kind of being in the funnel.  We are going through the spout but right now we are just circling the funnel.  Artvonne this country will not get out of the global trade.  I am just like you and I wish but it will not happen now.  I just can't figure out why an American company can't make a tire and sell it cheaper than the Chinese who have to ship it half way around the world.  It kinda ticks me off.

Ticks me off too.  But knowing that in spite of record breaking profits and the demand dropping they are still getting a tax break.  Did you know that you can actually track a
"tax" bill back to the congressman that wrote it and those that sponsored it.  Lots of bills I want answers on.  I don't actually know what the discrete steps are but my Rep does and I can drop by his office for a "training session".

The Chinese have negotiated some sweet deals with Iran and Valenzuela as the Chinese don't have near enuf oil.   So they are importing the oil that is used to make a tire plus manufacturing and internal shipping and transoceanic sipping and still selling the stuff for a huge profit.  I am with you on that confusion part.


John
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« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2011, 01:03:22 PM »

It's actually pretty simple.  a 50 hour work week = about $50.00
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« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2011, 01:28:37 PM »

How about visiting your local, friendly, knowledgeable, INEXPENSIVE heavy duty truck wrecking yard and ask about any good used take off tires and aluminum wheels?  These are good items taken off wrecked trucks that don't need them anymore but you may.

I was going to put good used 11RX24.5 Michelins on Alcoha wheels for my Crown Supercoach RV project, but finally rejected the deal because the tires, while being at about 75% tread and in excellent condition, were amost five years old.

Four $grand$ for ten (10) tires and alloy wheels, with close inspection, studs, nuts, acorns, truing, balancing and installation.  The point is that sometimes less expensive options for us Bus Conversions people are available.  HB of CJ (cheap old coot) 

   About a year ago, I got new tires (6).  Drives were two-year old "take offs" with about 25% -30% tread left (I'll never wear them out before they rot) - each pair was a "match" -- $650 for the 4 (incl. balancing, installation, inspection, etc.); two Toyo steers (new) $375 each.  The tire place does fleet maintenance - if a truck for some of their owners gets one tire damaged on the road and a new tire is put on, they still change all tires at "scheduled turnover" time.  Most of the tires are worn out, but there may be some tires that are those semi-worn replacements.  It's very hard to find full sets, but if you don't mind getting same size/same type/different brand, there are savings out there.
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« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2011, 03:38:39 PM »

It's actually pretty simple.  a 50 hour work week = about $50.00

Not to say that you are not right although a $1.66 per day is an exaggeration.

Our goods don't cost more because theirs cost less.  Watch the prices drop right after a union agrees to cut wages and benefits.  Sure!  Most of the foreign tire makers are owned in large part by USA investors. When Germany was crushed after WWII they sold stuff and they were ridiculed for a socialist agenda and the VW was a cheaply built little death trap.  Of course.  Now the Germans get something like 85 paid days off every year.  With all their social benefits they are still the power house of Europe.  Japan is the same story.  And those workers make more per hour than one of our workers.  One of the main reasons your tires "seem" to cost more is that wages in this great nation have been stagnant since 1990 and "trickle down" was implemented as a plan. Last I heard the average American (please excuse me Canadians) was making the equivalent of what he did in 1976 and I feel sure it is less today.  The price goes up every year but wages don't track.  Youy want cheaper tires?  Pay higher wages.  We tried it the other way since 90 and just look...we are cutting the school lunch programs.  Just how did the Chinese do this to us? 

Cheaper isn't really the factor....I want quality tires I can afford.  And that's why this is bus related.  There are fewer and fewer of us because we are being priced out of participating.  We didn't used to gasp at hearing the price of single tire.

John the tireless(little pun) Roll Eyes Grin
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« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2011, 05:38:40 PM »

I read several pretty in depth articles on the Chinese brands vs American brands.  The only detrimental thing they say about any of the Chinese brands are stopping distance.  In a full skidding brake situation the Chinese brands did not stop as fast as some of the American brands.   They still passed the standards testing to be sold here.

I found out Michelin owns the Double coin car tire factory in China.  The drive out price on a Ling Long or Double Coin tire is about $350 to $400.  Drive out on a Michelin is $700 to $800.  I would much rather buy something built right here in America from American materials by American hands.  I will when the American industry sells a product at a fair price.

You people crack me up.  Job movement is a natural process that has been going on since the dawn of the industrial age because; it is impossible to afford products made by your neighbors.  This has always been true.  Jobs migrated around Europe then to North America and now to Asia.

It is unlikely there will ever be a fair priced product made in the US.  A few days ago there was a thread about filters and the concensus was the American made filters were not worth twice the price of Chinese.

It is the man in your mirror who determines where consumer products are manufactured.

Wal,  even if the Chinese labeled product comes from the same production line as the Michelin tire it doesn't mean it is as good.

Quality brands have higher standards and will not put their name on an inferior product.

I negotiated for a Bridgestone tire with a dealer and he put Chinese tires on.  The people I had for balancing and aligning could not find two tires that weren't out so of round that they wouldn't bounce or so out of true that they could be aligned properly.  If out of round was the only problem they would have shaved the tires.

When I went back to the dealer concerning the tires he said they were from the Bridgestone factory.  Once the branded Bridgestone tires were installed everything was so much better.  The ride was more compliant, bus tracked straight and balance was achieved.

That said, do what is best for your money.  You sound competent so maybe a second tier tire is the perfect intersection of money and quality.

Mike
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« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2011, 05:46:08 PM »

I had one that would not balance well.  They kept putting on weights and I finally asked if they had another tire.  They did and it balanced well.  Now I am 4 tires deep in chinese.  They have performed very well.  They roll perfect.  I need 4 more for the rear and then I am hope I am done buying tires for a while.
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