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Author Topic: I'm sure I bought the wrong bus  (Read 4270 times)
Bus Busted
My other truck is a Bus!
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1984 Eagle 10, 1986 MCI 102A3




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« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2011, 05:03:35 PM »

   Thanks for the great response and emails. First I thing I need to make clear where the water went. I read an online manual for an MCI-9 and what I'm saying is what it said to do and what it called the fill holes. The first place I tried to fill with coolant was what they call the "coolant recovery tank". (1st Picture) I guess when the "surge tank" needs water it turns on a pump and gets filled by water from the coolant recovery tank. I read that I can turn on the pump and when I tried this nothing happened. I checked one of the water pipes/tubes and it didn't feel warm and didn't feel like water was being pumped through it.

   So I did more reading and found there was an "emergency coolant fill" next to the surge tank way above the engine. I IR temp checked the tank and lines and felt it was cool enough to open. (2nd Picture) Not wanting to waste coolant until I was sure this was plumbed right I just stuck a hose in it and turned the water on slow flow. I felt the tank and the temp dropped with the cold water. Then I heard water hitting the ground and looked for an overflow or something. I found the water coming from the passenger side slobber tube on the side of the block. I shut the water off and waited for it to stop draining. I quickly checked the oil to see if it was full of water. I had added oil earlier that day and the level had not changed so I figured no water in there yet. The engine was not running at this time and every time I started it before (after giving it new batteries) it fired on the first try. It had not locked up before and not really gotten that warm before since I owned it.

   I think we have to agree that it may have overheated in a past life. Why else would the "coolant recovery tank" be bypassed and why would it flow out the slobber tube the first time I added water? Ok, so after it stops dripping water from the slobber tube I check the oil again, still no rise in level. So I hit the start switch and I hear the starter clunk but not turn. As soon as I hear this I let off the switch knowing what I thought I was hearing and having read stories about diesel engines not being able to compress water and water lock. I let it sit over night and came out the next day to check the oil level. It had gone up and looked like there was a little bit of water in there now. As of today I checked the level again and it is even higher.

I have read posts and emails and this is my plan as I understand it. My thought is to remove the valve covers (why do they call it an air box cover, there are valves in there) and use something to open the closed exhaust valves one at a time while someone tries to turn the engine with a breaker bar. When I find the one trying to compress water it should pump the cylinder water out the open exhaust port valve. I do this until the engine can be turned over through the full rotation a few times. Then, as I have been told, flush out the water/oil and drain the filter. Add cheep oil and try starting it. I think this needs to be done shortly after the water goes into the exhaust so it can burn out of the exhaust instead of having water just sitting in the exhaust system for a day or two. Do I have the right plan of attack here? Am I missing anything? I now have an engine manual so if this works and the engine runs again I should be able to trouble shoot where the water entered the cylinder. I'm sure it's a bad o-ring or bad head at this point. The fact that it didn't fill the oil pan with water, but went to the slobber tube is probably a big clue once I look at the engine breakdown pictures. Thanks again, Jon

« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 05:14:12 PM by Bus Busted » Logged

1985 Eagle waiting repair of burn damage
1984 Eagle Model 10, just started conversion
1986 MCI 102A3, seated when bought, conversion on hold until Eagle is done
luvrbus
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« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2011, 05:32:14 PM »

You are wasting your time if the engine has locked remove the air box covers they are under the head oblong 2 on each side of a 6v92 the long one has 3 bolts the small one has 2 while you are there look at it with a flashlite or scope if you have black marks on the liner or scuffing,or if the rings don't spring back on the piston when you push on 1 with a pick it's time for a rebuild .  
 Put water in it If water is leaking on the piston and running into the air box from the ports it will be a head if leaking on the outside of the sleeve it will be a O-ring which I doubt they don't give that much trouble unless some idiot used soap or VO on install, they have improved the sleeve seals over the years they don't give the problems people here talk about,you may get lucky and it only a seal on the head to the block.
 I wish you luck but you can slice the pie into 4,6 or 8 pieces but the heads are coming off and anything else is a waste of time and money  

good luck
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 06:22:39 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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wal1809
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« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2011, 05:39:15 PM »

Bus busted I see you have been on here a short time.  Lots of folks here have a lot to say including me.  I know so little about anything I don't even suspect anything.  I do know this.  If Luvrbus is that specific about anything he is all over it.  What he wrote and how he wrote it is without a doubt the problem with your bus.  I believe he has nailed it.
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1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
www.snakebreaker.com
Van
Billy Van Hagen
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89' Silver Eagle 15/40 6V92MUI Boulder City,NV




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« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2011, 06:24:42 PM »

BB, sorry to hear this happened. Boy this is all to familiar, an overheated motor (scuse me engine Grin)was the culprit on my old six shooter. Cracked heads was the end result, do your self a big favor and go grab a running take out, and throw it in there and keep on boogieing  Wink. Been there done that, got the greazy T-shirt LOL! Oh welcome to the best Roll Eyes hobby on the planet by the way, huh guys Grin. good luck!

      Red Robin
     YUMMMM!!

    Van
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thejumpsuitman
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« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2011, 05:59:57 AM »

Bus Busted,

Clifford (luvrbus) diagnosed what was wrong with my engine from 3000 miles away blindfolded with two hands tied behind his back on a 15 second description.  He's the best on here, so you can take his word to the bank.  These old 2 strokes are not like a Chevy 350, it takes a highly skilled and experienced guy to make 'em act right.  (And I am sure not one of them)

I like Van's idea.  You can easily wind up throwing a lot of good money after bad, not to mention wasting a lot of time and frustration.  Let word get around a little and someone here will find you a take-out for a very reasonable price. 

Good luck,
Marc 
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"Life is like a game of Pool... No matter how bad it looks, you take your shot."
Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2011, 06:36:24 AM »

OK BB,
I haven't had time to respond here yet. But Clifford aka Luvrbus is 100% correct!

Several things need correction on what you think. (I know your new to these things and it will take time to learn)
1st off the "air box covers" and valve covers are 2 different animals and not to be confused. (and yes on a small block chevy valve covers are the first thing removed)

On a Detroit one of the first things you do to diagnose a problem is yank the air box covers off the suspected side. And "like" on a small block chevy, you can tell a whole bunch very fast.

Now the 2nd thing is the coolant tank you picture on the left side of your engine compartment is not you recovery tank, it is merely a coolant tank or reservoir if you want to call it that. The water in it hardly ever gets warm. The tank at the top is your surge tank.

The lower tank is where you pour water/coolant in and with the master battery switch & the ignition switch both on it should pump up to the "surge" tank.
If it doesn't check to see that (A) your getting power to the switch, (B) your getting power from the switch to the pump, (C) if the pump is getting power and not pumping, it's probably bad.  (but it's not in anyway part of your engines problem!)

I can assure you that what you have is typical and Clifford's on the $ with it.

What part of Indy are you in? I grew up in the Eagletucky/Speedway area and graduated from Northwest High School in 1984.
I now live in TN 1/2 way between Nashville & Memphis. I occasionally slip back to Indy to visit friends.

As far as take outs go, I have a local source selling MUI 6V92's w/Allson 740's for $3500 ea. and I can get them to leave it on the MCI frame mount.

I could be persuaded to pick one up and deliver it to Indy for expense $.
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
5B Steve
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« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2011, 07:50:42 AM »

  Bus busted,

  I live on the SW. side of Indianapolis west of the airport. Where are you located?

   Steve 5B.....
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 08:26:52 AM by 5B Steve » Logged
5B Steve
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« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2011, 08:12:54 AM »

   Bus Busted,

    Please excuse the previous post, for I hit the send button before it was completed. As formentioned,

   EASTSIDE WELDING is the Clifford (Luvrbus) of mechanicals in the Indianapolis area.  They worked on mine

  and did a fantastic job. With Clifford's knowledge, and there skills ,you can take it to the bank! If I can be

 of any help feel free to call 317-358-7520. Also if you need a engine , I have a 8V-71 for next to nothing.


  Steve 5B......

« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 08:25:25 AM by 5B Steve » Logged
Scott Bennett
Scott & Heather MCI-9
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« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2011, 08:13:06 AM »

Check Craigslist: http://flint.craigslist.org/pts/2519575303.html
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Scott & Heather
1984 MCI9 6V92-turbo with 9 inch roof raise & conversion in progress.
http://www.scottmichaelbennett.com/p/our-bus.html
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Bus Busted
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1984 Eagle 10, 1986 MCI 102A3




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« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2011, 07:50:11 PM »

   First I would like to thank everyone who has posted or e-mailed me. I have read and considered everything, even if I haven't replied to their post. I'm a fast study and also prefer to learn from others mistakes. I had called the local coach companies and found two were fond of a company called "East Side Welding". "5B Steve" also likes this company which makes me feel even better. The fact that they were called "Welding" and not "Coach Repair" had me a little worried. I thought about taking the engine apart myself and if things went bad just look for a swap out. I think I will pass on that after looking at the engine manual. Once I'm past that way of thinking it seems there are two camps, have fixed what's broke on my engine or find a running swap that I can hear run.

   I'm thinking I'll maybe do a little of both. Have mine taken apart and see what shape it's in. The heads are going to be pulled even if it's just a topside seal. Should know if there's cracking or warping in the head at that time. They have to pull the pistons to install o-rings on the sleeves, so they should be able to tell if there are cracks in the crank. Also at that time they should know if the bearing are bad. When I talked to them the older man said he liked to look at a couple spots for blower damage too! If everything is bad/cracked, I'm just in for pricey labor and not parts yet. I'll try to see if "East Side Welding" can be ready to bail on the rebuild if the block looks too bad with the understanding that they will get paid to do the install of the swap engine if that looks like the better choice. I do get down to TN regularly and might be able to put an ear on one of the engines that "Busted Knuckle" was talking about before it gets pulled. That price is right. I'm just not sure about that being my first choice as it will be coming out in unknown condition and could be a few months from failing. Where getting mine rebuilt will buy me the comfort of knowing it's in great shape. It also sounds like they know what to look for as far as other future trouble the coach might have.

   I now know that there is a bus event in Northern Indiana and it looks like I can make that. This should help with my learning curve even though I won't have a bus ready by that time. There are a few things I would like to see first hand. Conversion plumbing and how it was moved from the rear of the bus. How people dealt with the curves where the wall meets the ceiling. How they use space and not waste it as it seems every mod and floor plan wants to waste space! Also I'm looking forward to seeing what Elkhart, IN has in the way discounted RV surplus. Always knew they were there and THE place for RV parts, never been there. Hope I'm not too late as I have heard that some places have gone under.

Thanks again for the posts and info. I now understand more than I did. Like air box covers are not the valve covers, but the plates on the side that let you see the sleeves. Well take a look at what I have planned and if you think I'm on the wrong track, let me know. Other than checking everything out on it, there is no major rush to get it repaired in the next day or two.

   
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 09:31:46 PM by Bus Busted » Logged

1985 Eagle waiting repair of burn damage
1984 Eagle Model 10, just started conversion
1986 MCI 102A3, seated when bought, conversion on hold until Eagle is done
demodriver
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« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2011, 07:56:46 PM »

There is also a place in Montpelier (sp?) IN that has RV surplus.  I dont know how they compare in price but its alot closer to you.

What event is in northern IN that you refered to? I havent heard of any in IN.

Eric
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Bus Busted
My other truck is a Bus!
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« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2011, 09:02:46 PM »

   DemoDriver, the event is the "Great Lakes Converted Coaches, Surplus & Salvage Rally in Elkhart, IN Oct 12-16"

   Just in case this makes a difference as to my engine choice or plans... My plans for this bus are to convert to an RV / Tour Bus. I have the need to drive 7-10 people about 200-400 miles from Indianapolis with the need for 6-9 bunks. I plan on beefing up the back end a little and installing a trailer hitch. I want to haul a small trailer or a tow car. If this won't work I can have a chase truck follow with the trailer. Part of my plan is to have an area for a mobile studio used when the bus is parked that I currently haul in a trailer. This is why doing my own bus setup sounds better to me than buying a finished one and ripping stuff out to fit a new floor plan. I am using this site to get ideas and floor plans as they have lots of pictures with the floor plan at the bottom of each listing (the even have some MCI's). My plans are not as "Grand" as the ones you'll see here.
http://www.busforsale.com
I go to used buses and the first group is "Entertainer Coaches"
Thanks for any thoughts on this, Jon
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 09:15:00 PM by Bus Busted » Logged

1985 Eagle waiting repair of burn damage
1984 Eagle Model 10, just started conversion
1986 MCI 102A3, seated when bought, conversion on hold until Eagle is done
trucktramp
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« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2011, 09:52:16 AM »

Those guys from Great Lakes Converted Coaches are a pretty good bunch of people.  I met a few this summer in Turkeyville and had a blast.  They are a wealth of knowledge.  It will be a rally worth attending.  I would be there myself but I have a family reunion at the same time. 
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Dennis Watson
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Scotts, Michigan
1966 MCI MC5A
8V71
Spicer 4 Speed Manual
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« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2011, 10:13:45 AM »

Eric, that is a good rally George and Sue Meyers are there most of the time George is probably the best electrical mind around and he can make it simple to understand you should go if nothing else to meet George and Sue wonderful people

good luck
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demodriver
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« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2011, 10:48:43 AM »

Is there a website for the rally?  I might be able to make it up threw the week some time. It seams that there is about 10 events going on this weekend that I want to go to.

Thanks Eric
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