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Author Topic: Ack! Blew my wheel bearing en route to Choo-Choo  (Read 5945 times)
Len Silva
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« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2011, 07:06:11 AM »

I realize that it doesn't help you now but, if you have the bearing in your hand, you can often cross the actual bearing number rather than the equipment manufacturer's number (which may be different).

You may need a magnifying glass, but the number is engraved on the bearing somewhere.  Unfortunately, that doesn't apply to seals.
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« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2011, 07:16:35 AM »

Sean,
As you & I well know our German mistresses do create problems when parts are needed.

However sometimes I get lucky and do find replacements (matched up) here in the US.

OK now I know your not used to having the parts counter guys go out of there way to assist you in these needle in a haystack searches. Mostly due to the fact that these days most parts guys couldn't find a rag to wipe the dipstick if it's not listed with a part # on their computer screen.
And those that could are just to lazy to put forth the extra effort for Joe Blow that just walked in off the street who has never bought anything from them before.

But that is where guys like Don, Joel, Clifford, myself and anyone else who has a good personal relationship with our parts guys. We have the advantage because we buy lots of parts from these guys and most times they will go out of the way to help us.

That said it still doesn't help you here.
I suggest you do just as you mentioned and go ahead and order 2 sets of bearings (and races) and 4 seals.

That way you can have Joel change the front bearings and seals, and repack the tag bearings and replace the seals.

Then since you'll have new bearings and seals in hand have Don or Joel take them to their local parts guru and/or the local bearing house and see if they can match them up and get you part #'s and a set of new spares. By all means if you can't get new save the good used set for an emergency & order a spare seal for later and have it shipped anywhere here in the US. (I know I'd be more than happy to receive it and forward it to wherever you were going to be and I'm pretty sure Don, Mike or many others of us would too!)

When I say local bearing house most larger cities have a place that specializes in bearings & seals. (especially industrial areas)
You'd be surprised at what kinds of industrial machine might use the same bearings +/or seals as your bus. As said else where the bearings are made for other applications and Neoplan, Setra, MCI or whoevers engineers choose from existing sizes to meet their needs.

And yes Tom once I had my passengers being transported safely on a different bus, I would limp it home.

OH yeah Sean you should be able to find a oil bath cap @ either NAPA or a large fleet or truck parts supply house. (I replace them from time to time on my European Setra's)
  
Let us know if there is anything we can do to help. (although I'm sure Mike, Don, & Joel are more than capable of handling it!)
Grin  BK  Grin
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« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2011, 07:21:37 AM »

It took me 3 weeks to get bearings and seals for my neighbors Neoplan it is a smaller Neo than Seans I bought the bearings and seals from a outfit in England for a ridiculous price but were 1/2 the price from Neoplan they were made by SKF they are a weird size.
 
I don't what to tell you Sean my hubs were wet and the 140 + degree range is were they ran I was surprised at your temps running that cool with packed bearings you learn something every day,when the paint starts to bubble that will stopping time but if I could touch the hub I kept going

good luck
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bevans6
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« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2011, 07:28:21 AM »

I would check often that the big nut that holds the hub on is where it is supposed to be, I have no idea if those hubs are set with the nut locked but loose, or if the nut gets torqued to some specification.  Taper roller bearings come both ways.

I had one car that the rear wheel bearing was originally used in a German elevator.  You could find them, but they were $350 each.  Often the bearings cross reference but to a different ABEC rating.  We don't need ABEC 7, but we can sure use the bearing...

Brian
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Joe Camper
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« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2011, 08:01:05 AM »

Sean if you are confident that you have not lost the lubricant and the hub temps are where you have noted I would doubt very much that you have damaged the spindle.

Also after it gets disassembled take a good look and verify that the races have not "broke free" and have not been rotating in the hub.

I have had hubs apart on semi trlrs that had got hot enough to "blue" the metal of the spindle and still went back together without incident.

Greased hubs.....hmmmmmmmmm. interesting. The trucking industry is going back to this on semi trlrs and I believe it is preferable to 90wt. At temp the grease will liquefy and then turns to oil and centrifugal force throws it out to the rollers just the same.  Then when you park it cools and solidifies and you eliminate leaking out. I like that idea allot. Prevo hub seals are notorious for leaks grease over 90wt would eliminate that.

I think you will make it be careful but If you hear something drastically change sound I would stop immediately and I mean immediately wherever you are for worry about damage to the spindle.

Be careful and good luck

If it starts squeelin and you stop immidiatly often the spindle will still be servicable. Continuing as littile as 1 mile further will ruin it.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 08:05:22 AM by Joe Camper » Logged

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bevans6
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« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2011, 08:46:28 AM »

Typical wheel bearing grease is stable up to around 500 degrees F according to data sheets I have read.  If it is thinning out  to equivalent of 90  weight gear oil at normal wheel bearing operating temps (under 150 degrees F), it's some funky grease.

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/p,q/pds_WB_Grease.pdf

"Dropping Point" is the specification for the temperature where a grease thins out enough to form a drop of fluid.

Brian
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 08:52:23 AM by bevans6 » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2011, 09:03:09 AM »

Having spent time working on British aircraft I found out a couple of things about bearings
1. All are actually in metric sizes.
2. A good bearing house can find almost any bearing by micing the inside Dia, out side Dia and width then matching. Note I said bearing house - not auto parts store.
3. above info also holds with seals - may not be exact but will work fine.
JimH
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« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2011, 10:03:05 AM »

I had a huge bearing supply in Phoenix looking for the bearings for Claude's Neo the problem we ran into was the degree of the taper and the size of the roller 

We could find the size OD and ID and several told us the angle of degrees and bearing size with changing the race would not make a difference but we choose not to go that route we figured there had to be reason so we ordered the originals

good luck
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« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2011, 10:17:48 AM »

  I havnt bought bearings and seals from parts stores since I was 20 something. I took apart a Mercury Outboard lower unit, and when I heard what Mercury wanted for seals and bearings, some were well over $100 (in the mid 80's), I found a bearing house and bought the $100 plusers for like $12.

  Most major cities have a bearing supply house, just look in the yellow pages uinder bearings. If they can find bearings and seals for Ferrari's and obscure 1950's foriegn cars they can find the stuff for a Bus. And anything can be overnighted.

  I think you can also turn too slow with a bad bearing, and they can get too tight. It may be advisable to back off the nut a titch so it wont bind (1/4 to half turn out). If the rollers start binding you run the risk of spinning the cups in the hub. Then you'll not only need spindle work, but you may be looking for a new hub to boot. Then can get pretty loose and sloppy before they reach a point where coming apart becomes any kind of risk. As long as the rollers keep rolling, you wont damage anything.
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bevans6
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« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2011, 11:11:07 AM »

It's actually quite common for "automotive" bearings to be unique to a manufacturer, and not be a common specification.  I've seen that a lot on different things, VW comes to mind inside their gearbox.

It's not surprising to me at all that some things are OEM specific. 

Brian
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« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2011, 06:50:19 PM »

It's actually quite common for "automotive" bearings to be unique to a manufacturer, and not be a common specification.  I've seen that a lot on different things, VW comes to mind inside their gearbox.

It's not surprising to me at all that some things are OEM specific. 

Brian

Ahh the vw front pinion bearing- ring nut, and 4-bolt style. I see you have an old formula ford!
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eagle19952
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« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2011, 08:31:00 PM »

http://www.interchangeinc.com/

http://www.interchangeinc.com/seals.html

Nearly 300,000 part numbers listed for more than 10,000 seals and O-rings from over 1,900 OEMs and manufacturers. Also features USA federal stock numbers and rare, hard-to-find parts.

http://www.interchangeinc.com/bearings.html

References over 470,000 part numbers by specification and design in more than 25,000 categorized groups for various ball bearings, straight, tapered, and spherical roller bearings. More than 1,150 OEMs and manufacturers are represented.

http://www.timken.com/zh-cn/products/Documents/BearingInterchangeGuide7536.pdf

If you have the MB part # one of these interchange guides should be able to cross reference the bearing.
IBI.(International Bearing Interchange) and
ISI.(International Seal Interchange) is an invaluable resource.
When I worked in the industry I had them and solved seal and bearing dilemmas for LeBherr (German HEQ),Komatsu (Japanese HEQ), Poclain (French HEQ).
The Timken pdf lists for Mercedes.
There has to be a bearing supply that has these books,data discs.
Good luck.
On rotating the bearing hub to the tag....uh..no...what if all the rollers fall out of the cage....what if one roller falls out.....
I would find a major bearing supplier.
PS if the US Govt ever bought a NeoPlan (like yours),then there should be an FSN for that bearing and seal.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 08:40:48 PM by eagle19952 » Logged
Sean
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« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2011, 07:39:59 PM »

Just a quick update here.  We are in Atlanta tonight, having made it around 400 miles since starting this thread with no detectable change in hub temperatures, noise, end play (axial runout), or "feel" of the bearing as I spin the wheel.

I have just 110 miles to go to make it to Choo Choo.  I will be coming mostly up US-41, as I have been keeping my speed down below 50 at all times.

I still don't have price and delivery on the OEM bearings from my supplier in the UK, so if Joel can get me in first thing Monday I think we'll pull the bad ones and see if we can find any numbers to cross-reference with the above resources.

Is there a good bearing shop in the Chattanooga area, or are we looking at having to go to Knoxville or Atlanta for these?

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey/BlogSpot.com
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eagle19952
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« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2011, 07:55:13 PM »

I would start here:
Motion Industries Inc
3740 Powers Ct # 400
Chattanooga, TN 37416-3671
(423) 490-0852 ‎

Then here:
Dalton Bearing Services‎
601 South Glenwood Avenue
Dalton, GA 30721
(706) 278-2804
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« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2011, 08:09:14 PM »

Sean,

Here are SKF's USA phone numbers if you need them.

http://www.skf.com/portal/skf_us/home/contactus?contentId=055996&lang=en

Nick-
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