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Author Topic: Oooh my my, electric fans cooling transit bus engines.  (Read 2013 times)
zubzub
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« on: October 14, 2011, 09:07:27 AM »

During my morning commutes I have noticed that many of the transits (don't know what kind no labels) have the main rad cooled by 8 electric fans that cover the entire surface of a usual size transit rad (40"X40"?).  The rad is in the usual position (shoulder height on the left rear quarter) and I can see the fans through the grill.  Now I don't know for sure that there isn't a hydraulic drive fan in the engine bay so once i know that it will be more interesting, but that sure is a lot of fans for aux cooling.
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2011, 10:14:07 AM »

Zub,
Are you sure those are not for the A/C condenser?
All our Setra's use an 8 fan set up like that and several others do too.

Not saying it's not the radiator, but could be A/C.
One would have to look closely to know for sure.
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
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zubzub
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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2011, 12:00:02 PM »

I agree I'm not close enough to know for sure.  I had thought of the AC system but   these buses have the roof AC thing, it's about, 1' high 4' wide and 8' long sits about half way up the bus in the middle of the roof.  I really want to find out if these  buses just use electric fans to do the main cooling, 'cause that would be interesting to know, and controversial, maybe i could even get my thread locked down. Smiley
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2011, 12:06:35 PM »

Oh well if ya want it locked down all ya gotta do is say so an someone will help ya out by reporting it, or going political on it! LOL!  Roll Eyes
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
RJ
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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2011, 07:42:25 PM »

Zub -

Take a couple pics of the bus and either Runcutter or I will be able to better answer your question.

If you have trouble posting them here, email them to me (addy in profile).

 Wink
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RJ Long
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Fresno CA
luvrbus
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« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2011, 07:55:44 AM »

We have a couple of Orion Hybrid buses here that have that set up with the roof airs and all the electric fans  sounds like the same bus you are seeing

I could see electric fans working on transit buses most don't have diesel engines and stop and go they should pull enough air to stay cool

good luck
« Last Edit: October 15, 2011, 09:15:51 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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Runcutter
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« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2011, 08:31:36 AM »

Zub, if you can post a picture, that may be helpful.  At least, name the transit system and give us a bus number.  Nowadays, almost all transits look alike.  I used to be able to glance at a transit or a coach, and tell you model number, now I frequently can't even tell who made the darned thing.

I spent last week in New Orleans, at the American Public Transportation Association Annual Meeting and Expo.  The Expo only happens every three years, so it's a big event.  The exhibit hall was 1/2 mile from end to end (by GPS and pedometer), so CVS had a surge in Dr. Scholl's shoe inserts.  While I was talking with one of my clients, a vendor (Diesel Radiator, I think) had a radiator with multiple electric fans on display.  When they turned it on, there was "a mighty wind."

Try pictures if you can, but don't forget the transit system and bus number.  This is also a good reminder to folks -- include your city/location in your signature.

Arthur
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Arthur Gaudet    Carrollton (Dallas area) Texas 
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hargreaves
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« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2011, 10:19:16 AM »

Coast Mountain Bus co. in Vancouver BC is retrofitting some of there New Flyer / cummins ISL low floors with electric fans. There is a company in the US that makes them, I think they have 6 or 8 fans that come on  at different times according to load requirements. They claim to save power due to the paracidic loss when using the hydraulic system.  Also the fans are not regulated by engine speed, so when going down a hill with the retarder on the fans can run at full speed. Neat system.  Still doing the testing  so no confirmed results yet.    Cheers  Gerry.
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now as of Feb 2012 series 50 B400  . Sunshine Coast British Columbia
buswarrior
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« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2011, 05:21:08 PM »

I have seen what I thought were Nova low floor transit coaches with those racks of electric fans in them in Quebec City.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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TomC
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« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2011, 11:13:20 PM »

The big double decker transit buses in Las Vegas use electric fans with a huge radiator.  But-transit bus is actually the easiest on the cooling system since the bus is stop and go with plenty of time in between to cool off.  Put that same bus on the Baker grade on I-15 in the summer and see what happens.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
RoyJ
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« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2011, 02:11:25 PM »

I'm gonna guess this is the manufacturer of the 8-fan setup:

http://www.europump.ca/products/advanced-products-group/thermal-management-kits.html

I believe the idea is that batteries are recharged under braking, and the stored energy can then run the fans upon acceleration.

I've been looking for an electric setup for my bus ever since I got it, as the OEM engine fan has long rotted away. But most of these off the shelf system is too expensive for the hobby bus owner. This summer I finally managed to design a successful setup, using mostly OEM car parts.

TomC got it bang on though - transits are much easier to cool than modern highway coaches because their time average output is much lower. I'd guess a typical transit uses no more than 150hp average over say, a 10 minute period.

A highway coach climbing over a mountain pass would average close to their peak power: 400 - 450hp.
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Songman
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« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2011, 02:14:18 PM »

Ask Boomer about cooling his Eagle with electric fans. Everyone says you can't do it but he does it just fine with his and has been all over the country in it.
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RoyJ
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« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2011, 02:20:35 PM »

Ask Boomer about cooling his Eagle with electric fans. Everyone says you can't do it but he does it just fine with his and has been all over the country in it.

Mark's setup is what inspired me in the first place.

Electric fans will never be as powerful as engine driven, but we rarely need 100% cooling capacity. OEM design them for commerical long haul under worst case: uphill in 110* weather full throttle.

With my setup, I can slow cruise at 50 - 55 mph without the fans ever coming on, due to a relatively thin rad. I can climb 10% grades in 85* weather continuously. For the 2% of time when I need to do it in 100+ weather, I just flick on my misters.
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luvrbus
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« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2011, 02:51:14 PM »

Marks is a well engineered system not a bunch of AutoZone fans lol
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