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Author Topic: Lug Nuts - Pics of my Nuts  (Read 7162 times)
DavidInWilmNC
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1978 MC-8 as I bought it May 2005




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« on: October 13, 2006, 05:21:37 PM »

I seem to remember reading that some MCI's, particularly those for Trailways, had both hub piloted and stud piloted nuts on the front wheels.  My MC-8 is one of those.  While I know that the two are not interchangeable, there must be some reason for it.  I'd really like to know why this was done if anybody has a clue.  I'll be ordering some new correct ones next time I order bus parts.

David
« Last Edit: October 15, 2006, 10:36:07 AM by DavidInWilmNC » Logged
NJT5047
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« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2006, 07:02:46 PM »

Hi David,
Very interesting question...never heard of such.   Are you saying that you have two different styles of lugnuts on the front wheels?
An upside to my hub-piloted wheels is I've got all RH studs on my MC9...that's cool.   I suppose that some stud-piloted wheels are all RH too?
I'm interested in the rationale for your lugnut style.
JR
   
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.”

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Dallas
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« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2006, 07:12:34 PM »

Dave,
They can only have one type of lug nut for each type of wheel.

There are not suppose to be both kinds on one wheel. That can get you really hurt! Really fast!

And believe me, it is absolutely NO fun to have one of your steering tires pass you as you go down the road.
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larryh
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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2006, 11:36:40 AM »

Dave

If you have two different styles on your bus somebody didn't have the right one in stock and changed it over but it isn't a good practice get the originals should be non piloted for your unit.

LarryH
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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2006, 01:21:47 PM »

I think I know what your talking about. I bought a MC8 back in '96 that was an ex Canadian hound. Every other lug nut was different on the front axle. The stud and thread was the same. It was like a big washer effect. I took those off and put regular lug nuts like the others because chrome  lug covers would not fit on the bigger lugs. The only bus I evere had that had those.
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gumpy
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« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2006, 01:32:42 PM »

No, that's not mecessrily true. This was done, and is quite common.

The MC8 I originally bought was this way. It had tapered nuts on every other stud, and flat nuts on the remaining.

The tapered nuts are used to align the wheel, and the flat nuts provide maximum strain relief against the wheel due the large flange on the nut.
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Craig Shepard
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Dallas
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« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2006, 01:38:56 PM »

No, that's not mecessrily true. This was done, and is quite common.

The MC8 I originally bought was this way. It had tapered nuts on every other stud, and flat nuts on the remaining.

The tapered nuts are used to align the wheel, and the flat nuts provide maximum strain relief against the wheel due the large flange on the nut.

Well,
I'll be darned.

Whudda thunk!
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tekebird
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« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2006, 05:52:07 PM »

are the stud holes in the wheels different?

Stud piloted vs hub piloted stud hole alternating?

Usu==ing a hub piloted lug nut on a stud piloted hub would not leave alot of contact area between the wheel and lug nuit...thus would be likely to loosen I would think.

Sounds to me like some abomination.
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NJT5047
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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2006, 06:06:45 PM »

Are the "flat" lugs set over a "countersunk" hole?   Typically Budd wheels use an automotive style lugnut (on the front...the rear is a little more complicated)....did they install a hub piloted lugnut on the countersunk hole or is the wheel flat where the flat nut goes?
Could one retrofit Budd style lugnuts on all lugs?  Similar to a truck...or older bus.
Beatenbo, covers for the 1.5" transit lugnuts (hub piloted) are available...I've got a bagfull of the things and never installed them.   I bought high hats, caps, and lug covers...afraid to install the lugnut covers because I seem to have the wheels (or wheel) off for some reason too frequently.  Looks like they'll be damaged by removing them once in place.
Where the large lugnuts you refer to 1.5"?   
JR
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.”

Ayn Rand
DavidInWilmNC
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1978 MC-8 as I bought it May 2005




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« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2006, 09:45:31 AM »

Ok, so hopefully these pics of my nuts will help.   Wink 
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DavidInWilmNC
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« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2006, 09:48:59 AM »

Here are the other pics.  Now, I may drive around with loose tag nuts, but I DO have the correct ones in the front!  From what I've read, some companies specified these non-standard nuts on their buses.  For whatever reason, they saw the 'need for better lug nuts' in that the hub-piloted look-alikes supposedly give better clamping for dealing with side-to-side forces (typically encountered only on the front). 

David
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NJT5047
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« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2006, 10:36:18 AM »


Ok, so hopefully these pics of my nuts will help. Wink

David, you got funny looking nuts man.    Wink   As Dallas said...who'da thunk it.
They have properties of both Budd and flange nuts.   Obviously made for Budd wheels.
One must wonder why they stopped doing the lugnuts that way? 
Interesting.
JR
BTW, those flanged nuts don't look like hub piloted nuts on the flat.  Hub piloted nuts are totally flat with a locking mechanism built into the two piece washer.  The hub centers the wheel...the lugnuts and studs just hold it on.   




 
« Last Edit: October 15, 2006, 10:39:53 AM by NJT5047 » Logged

JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.”

Ayn Rand
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« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2006, 10:52:01 AM »

If you ever change those lug nuts be sure you use the tapered nuts.  As the new nuts with a washer does not have the taper to them that yours do.
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Stan
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« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2006, 11:55:55 AM »

I am sure some engineer had a good idea but when I look at the picture of your combination nuts they don't make sense. The nut has two seating surfaces; one on the flat and one on the taper. Even if the nuts and wheels are precision machined you will not get a clamping force on both. Either the taper will seat first or the flat will seat first. The rust on your nut looks like neither was seated properly. Examine your nuts carefully and see if you can determine where the clamping force is. There should be a continuous ring with no rust on both the nut and wheel .
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DavidInWilmNC
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« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2006, 12:31:26 PM »

I am sure some engineer had a good idea but when I look at the picture of your combination nuts they don't make sense. The nut has two seating surfaces; one on the flat and one on the taper. Even if the nuts and wheels are precision machined you will not get a clamping force on both. Either the taper will seat first or the flat will seat first. The rust on your nut looks like neither was seated properly. Examine your nuts carefully and see if you can determine where the clamping force is. There should be a continuous ring with no rust on both the nut and wheel .

Stan,
The clamping section is the outside ring; the taper is slightly shallower than the standard nut.  I don't know about not being seated properly, but those were the only two I could remove.  I used a 4' cheater bar and put my 170 lbs on it and couldn't budge them, so they were fairly tight.  The part in bold above is kinda scarey!

David
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