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Author Topic: Will anyone finance a bus conversion I own outright?  (Read 3244 times)
belfert
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« on: October 21, 2011, 07:30:56 AM »

I have found a house with a 3800 square foot outbuilding that would be perfect for me and my bus.  It is half the price or less of my current home.

I would need to come up with well over $10,000 that I don't have in order to sell my house.  Is there any bank/credit union/whatever that would allow me to take out a loan on my bus that I own outright?  The main issue I see is a lot of banks won't make loans on vehicles one already owns outright.  The matter of if they would even make a loan on my vehicle is secondary.

My finances would be a whole lot better if I sold my house and bought this one.  I think part of the reason this house is so cheap is because folks don't want to commute that far in this day of $4 gas.
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« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2011, 07:35:01 AM »

You might try the locally owned banks and credit unions. They are less apt to have a formula and more apt to take your specific vehicle into account.

-jbn
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« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2011, 07:49:09 AM »

Seconding checking out a local credit union or bank.   Before the credit meltdown, some banks had no problem giving a loan on a vehicle that was owned outright (providing it was new enough). I don't know how easy that is to do these days and if it was ever possible with a bus conversion or not.

Another option is taking out an unsecured personal loan.  A friend of mine sold his house a couple years back and was upside down in the mortgage. To pay it off, he took out both a loan on a vehicle he owned AND took out a personal loan.


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« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2011, 07:54:17 AM »


Make out a sales contract to your wife and have her apply for the money just as if she were buying it from anywhere. 
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« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2011, 07:55:38 AM »

Is it that you need the $10K for expenses related to the sale, or that you expect to come out of the old house with $10K negative equity (loss) to get clear?

I agree on the credit union.  They will need a survey of the bus, probably.  I would probably start by doing a business plan and going to the current mortgage lender and whoever you might try to use for the mortgage on the new house.  something like "here's my equity, here is what I will end up with after the old house is sold and the new house is bought, here's the amount I'm paying for the new house, getting for the old house, what the new house is worth, here's the gap, finance me"

Brian
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« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2011, 07:55:57 AM »

It turns out this house won't work for me.  I had gone out and taken a quick look at the place and thought the outbuilding would be tall enough, but it turns out the ceilings are only 12 feet high.  Not going to work when my bus is at 12 foot 9 inches.

I guess trying to come up with cash is a moot point now.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2011, 08:01:49 AM »

  Brian, we lived west of the cities. When gas hit $4 gallon the town basically died, and its still dead. The town was forcast to hit 30K on the census, but its actually down from where it was 10 years ago at barely 10K. It was 12K on the sign (2000 census), and they figured population was 25K around 2008. Today so many homes are empty, foreclosed, and dozens of new ones got bulldozed. Its the same story in all the bedroom communities surrounding the metro area that grew from people commuting into the metro for work.

  Your best bet would be rural property nowhere near any town. As far as financing your Bus, with the current market I would think that would be a real longshot. But you wont know til you ask. Youll likely have to be to show actual and recent sales figures of comparable Buses to prove its value to them, its doubtful they will do that work for you.
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« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2011, 09:10:13 AM »

I need to live within driving distance of downtown Minneapolis.  I can't keep my job and live in a rural area.  The place I thought would work is in Bethel, MN about a 38 mile drive from downtown.  I didn't actually schedule a showing, but I did drive out there and take a quick look at the place.  By eye I thought the wall height was tall enough, but I learned it is not.

The house is about 5 years old and all on one level so it would be good far into the future for me.  I'll have to keep looking I guess.  My original plan was to sell my house and build a new house and bus barn, but it would cost me twice what a place like this is currently selling for.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2011, 10:34:30 AM »

Is the construction of the garage (and does the zoning permit) such that you can jack up the garage to increase the height?
My Dad was able to jack up his garage, pour a concrete floor under it, and install a three-cinder-clock high foundation wall for the garage to sit on.  He needed to re-do the electric feed and install a new garage door - but everything else was ok.
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« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2011, 10:57:29 AM »

If you are in the market I read something last night and I would wait just a bit more. Apparently there is a bunch of foreclosures going to hit the market at the turn of 2012. The banks did not do all their paperwork correctly and had to redo many foreclosures, but the timelines will expire and they are set to be on the market around the first of the year.
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« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2011, 11:19:21 AM »

The building is 48x80.  Anything is possible, but I expect jacking up a building that large by two feet and then putting in a block wall would not be inexpensive.  It would likely be possible to replace the rafters with ones that have a taller space in the center, but again the cost would be steep.

The price is low enough that the outbuilding is almost free, but if the outbuilding won't meet my needs free can be too expensive.  It would a perfect location for the guy with lots of hobbies that need indoor space.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 11:21:56 AM by belfert » Logged

Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2011, 11:19:50 AM »

Raise the roof on the barn if everything else is what you want .

you would be surprised how cheap and easy it is

Or just add another out building just for your  bus
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« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2011, 02:37:37 PM »

Brian, if the building has a dirt floor, and if the landscaping is favorable, could you drop the floor a bit over a foot? You would not need to do the whole floor.  Might even be able to sneak in a pit if the county folks are not looking.

Jim
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« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2011, 03:12:14 PM »

The building has a concrete floor as far as I can tell.  I haven't seen anything but the exterior of the building so I really don't know much about how it is built.  I had planned to get a showing as soon as I could before I learned the ceiling is only 12 feet.

Financially this would be a huge stretch up front, but long term it would help my finances tremendously.  There isn't any guarantee I could even sell my house and buy this one before my house sells though it has been on the market a while.  My house should be an easier sell because it is right in the core of the metro area.

The listing for the house is at http://www.edinarealty.com/MN/Bethel/55005/homes-for-sale/502-237th-Avenue-NW-59873634.
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« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2011, 03:38:15 PM »

IMHO raising the roof on that barn would be easier than raising the roof on your coach.  Really, not that big of a deal.  Two guys, a couple hammers and a saw, and one weekend.  Don't the 12' stop you.  If the place is all you want it to be, and the price is right... buy it and raise the roof.

Dave
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« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2011, 04:18:04 PM »

I can't tell for sure, but if the building is steel framed, the ceiling looks to be false.  If that is the case, it will not require a lot of work (new door, poosible header, and ceiling).  Looks like a good deal to me.

Best of luck.
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« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2011, 04:51:21 PM »

The seller told the agent that "it is just under 12' floor to truss".  That indicates to me that the roof is wooden truss construction.  I'm still probably going to schedule a showing to take a closer look.
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« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2011, 05:12:07 PM »

Looks like a 12 ft metal sided building to me roof trusses are probably metal doesn't look tall enough on the sides for standard wood trusses, lot of snow in that area with the pitch of the roof slope wonder what the side walls are framed with
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« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2011, 06:52:01 PM »

Seems like a great buy, but I'm still stuck in the past. Maybe you could cut/build a tall bay in the center of the outbuilding relatively easy. Worth a look at the rafters.
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« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2011, 04:51:30 AM »

I've never worked with a steel frame building.  Most barns like that around here are what we call pole barns.  There are 6"x6" posts every 8' give or take.  With a large "header" from one post to the next.  All the roof trusses simply sit on those headers.  They are either toe-nailed or have a metal bracket on each truss.  To raise the roof, simply build a 2"x6" stud wall, about 24" tall, lift the roof and set the stud wall on top of the headers.  Lower the roof back down on your stud wall and re-attach.  A little angle cross bracing would be a nice bonus.  Around here a lot of people would add some semi-clear fiberglass panels around the top, instead of trying to match the steel siding.  That way you can get some natural light into the barn.

We have as much or more snow here in northern Michigan as Minneapolis, so I don't see the extra height being any kind of snow load issue.

A number of years ago I lifted a very large garage, but I lifted the walls.  That one was stud built on top of blocks.  I simply raised the building, added a few coarse of blocks, then set the building back down.  Pretty easy project really.  Put a junction in for the main incoming power, changed the entrance door and replaced the roll up garage doors.  Did the whole thing in one weekend, with my wife and two little kids.   


Dave
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« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2011, 05:56:54 AM »

FWIW I have two buildings that look close to identical from the outside that are stick framed walls with wood truss roofs.  One is 60' wide, full span trusses.  The walls are 2 by 6 stud walls with 16" centers.  Steel siding and roof skin on the outside.  One is 12' clearance, the other is closer to 16'.  12' is a common height, simply because studs come that long from the sawmill...

Brian

Edit: the middle building with the three doors is around 60 feet wide by 45 deep, except for a 20 foot wide section that is 60 feet deep.  It's got 12' walls and full span manufactured trusses.  It's in Nova Scotia and we get a lot of snow, but it just slides off....  The building on the right is about 45 feet by 50 feet, and has a higher ceiling.  I can get my bus in the middle building, barely, but I am going to use the right hand building as the bus  barn.  My car shop, machine shop, wood working shop and pottery studio are going in the middle building.

Brian

« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 07:21:06 AM by bevans6 » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2011, 06:02:08 AM »

It probably is a wood frame with the flat ceiling metal buildings are measured at the side walls mine is 16ft on the sides 18ft in the center,  lot's of lost space in the building with a load bearing wall down the center here in the county I live in 32 ft is the most you can span with a hip wood trusse and roof pitch is almost flat or can be flat no snow here lol

good luck
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« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2011, 06:27:00 AM »

Idea: My prevost goes in 12ft door with clearance.  No roof warts!  might be less expensive to change Ac type than raise roof.  Doesn't answer Finance question. That would be a collateral Question on a personal loan that depends on your situation.   Bob
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« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2011, 09:44:36 AM »

      OK, this might not answer your exact question, but I've found that banks are pretty good about lending money to cover trading houses, moving expenses, etc. *if* you have good credit, good income, and a fairly sellable and valuable item of collateral -- at least, they were in the older "good times".   If you could show them that you were able to pay off the loan reasonably soon (as, when your earlier house sold), that kind of loan (or as it used to be) was easy to get.
      Typically, if you have an "unusual" item (I've mostly known people who put airplanes up for collateral on a short term loan), the bank wants to discount the value of the collateral and discount it more if the item is "more unusual" and therefore more difficult, time-consuming, and expensive to sell if they had to foreclose on it.  Thus, I would expect that a bus would work but you probably wouldn't get much of a loan for it (i.e. its percentage of "real value" that they'd allow as collateral on a loan would be pretty low).
      I live in a small town that I grew up in.  I've been banking at the same bank for 15 years.  It's a local bank that my mother owned a few shares of stock in.  I had a home loan that I paid off with them and I've financed a couple of cars (I paid fairly large down payments on these cars to keep interest low) and paid them off.  I've had savings and checking accounts there.  I'm going to guess that I could get fairly good service on a short-term loan there.  But, of course, that kind of banking is going the way of the rotary dial phone.
      But I'm thinking that your question depends more on a person's personal circumstances and history than it does on "what happens or has happened to other people".
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« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2011, 10:38:22 AM »

I deal with Chase they will not lend on any vehicle that is over 8 years old if I buy a older bus they lend it on a personal note

good luck
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« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2011, 12:01:46 PM »

I thought of one idea for making one bay of the building usable for my bus.  The one door is dug down in front for a loading dock.  I wonder if I could dig out the floor in that bay and lower it down?  I would have to do it all the way across so I could work on the exterior of the bus.   Water could be an issue, but draintile and a sump pump could solve that just like any basement.
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« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2011, 12:27:45 PM »

(snip) I wonder if I could dig out the floor in that bay and lower it down? 

     Might be practical in some situations but seems to me that everything that's not nailed down would be down in that lower floor area in no time.  I think I'd be real careful on this one.
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« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2011, 07:00:46 PM »

If you really just need only 6 inches more clearance, maybe you could jackhammer out two strips of the floor for the tires to ride in. I bet you could to that yourself in a day. You could pour some concrete in the void after you dig out some dirt, or you could just put some gravel in there since it won't get wet and the speed will be low.

Yes, you won't be able to get under the bus this way, but it's so cheap to do it would get you started with this new house. Then, six months or a year from now you could raise the barn roof or really lower the floor properly.

I also like the idea of removing some items from the bus roof like air conditioners, if that will work.

Good luck. I like the house and that building is HUGE. Looks costly to heat or cool though due to the size.

Kevin Warnock
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« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2011, 07:15:17 PM »

I thought of one idea for making one bay of the building usable for my bus.  The one door is dug down in front for a loading dock.  I wonder if I could dig out the floor in that bay and lower it down?  I would have to do it all the way across so I could work on the exterior of the bus.   Water could be an issue, but draintile and a sump pump could solve that just like any basement.

fwiw never leave a bus or anything in a hole that needs a sump pump.   Lose  power or several other problems I can't think of and bam everything will get a little wet.  Something to think about.

Lonnie
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« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2011, 08:09:48 PM »

Brian -

Work with your real estate agent, not the seller's.  Better potential for a win-win conclusion.

Have your agent put together a contract with the seller's agent that includes the following:  You're committing to purchase the property @ $XXX,XXX, contingent upon your own house selling.  Both sales can be lumped together in a single escrow, everybody wins. 

Work with a local bank/credit union, not one of the majors.  The majors are so screwed up right now, the left hand doesn't even know the right hand exists, let alone the toes.  The local guys are much more willing to support local transactions, and often will make decisions favorable to all involved if the plan is presented correctly.

This is a great time to buy, and it's really a buyer's market, especially with the interest rates being what they are.

Negotiate a deal and go for it!

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2011, 08:32:47 PM »

I am a builder and real estate investor and deal with buying and selling houses all the time.

Everything RJ just said is spot on. (Great advise)

Looks like a great deal to me!
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« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2011, 09:08:40 PM »

  Living down here in Arkansas you dont see many wood truss pole buildings, but I see tons and tons of steel truss ones.

  In Minnesota its just the opposite. Up there I could count on one hand the number of steel truss outbuilding ive seen, and thats after you remove most of my fingers. I would be darn surprised that building is anything other that a pole barn with wood trusses.

  As suggested, the posts are likely 6x6, 6 to 8 feet on center, trusses 6 to 8 feet on center as well. In Minnesota most buildings like that are built to 40 pound roof load and on a tall building like that, with code requiring a 100 mph wind load, there will be a lot of diagonal bracing. When I built mine (36x48) I had 12X12 doors on each end, and was required to put 2 2x16 headers over each door, plated to the lower truss beam.

  I would NOT raise the trusses off the tops of the posts, you will weaken it. If I did anything, I would just splice them. Cut the post a foot or so up from the ground, raise the building the 6-8-10 inches you want, and set it down with post sections cut to length and fish plate the posts with 3/8 steel plates through bolted.

  I see that house has been on the market since April, and they been dropping the price 10-15K every month since June. Bet they drop another 10 by the end of the month? These are motivated sellers. Not trying to be mean, but I would offer 125 on your contingency sale. And if you need to sell your home, have you had any realtors out to do a cost analysis? You may be in for a real shock. These people started at 200K 7 months ago. Likely that was a 400K plus home just 3 years ago. Our sons house in Moundsview just lost another 35K on its tax appraised value. By Buddies house up in Coon Rapids is now appraised lower than what they bought it for in 91. Its a real kick in the pants. We wont even talk about the house we had, thats an even sicker deal. My Dad and I had a place in Nowthen, just west of this place 10 odd miles. Land out there went like a roller coaster. 2500 acre in 89, 30K acre by 2001 ish, now its back to 2500 an acre. Even so, id rather have land over a house.

  edit; I also agree with RJ, work with someone local. All the trouble were in was caused by lenders lending to people with questionable income (or no income!). Theyve tightened that up. If you have any kind of credit, verifiable income, and a pulse, your golden.

  The reason I say 125K is because thats the current trend, and likely where it will be in a few more months. And lets all be honest, its probably going to keep going down for a long while. A year from now you could be well upside down even buying at 125.

    
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« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2011, 04:35:40 AM »

It looks like this isn't going to work out.  My agent's estimate on the potential selling price on my house is a fair bit lower than I thought it might be.  With the agent's commission I owe well more than the house would sell for.  I couldn't possibly come up with enough cash to cover the difference.  (I am already using an agent with lower than typical commission.)

I can continue to live in my current house indefinitely and still pay all my bills.  I've just been looking for something cheaper that has a building to park the bus,
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« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2011, 07:17:28 AM »

Quote from: belfert
(I am already using an agent with lower than typical commission.)

Really, does MN not regulate the amount of commission on real estate sales like other states?
I know here in TN it's 6% mandated by the state no more no less.

I don't know the figures off the top of my head but I remember IN & KY were also the same way yrs ago when I had dealings there too.
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