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Author Topic: I am conflicted  (Read 1792 times)
ojgetaway32
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« on: October 26, 2011, 06:29:29 AM »

Those of you who read my post recently know that I have a 1983 MC9 with and 8V71N and a 5 speed manual.  You also know from that post that I just bought a 1994 102D3 with a 60 series and an Allison.  That post mentioned that I need my head examined because, well...who needs two busses as toys.  Isn't one plenty?  My new confliction is that I just drove the new bus and the old bus in the same day.  I like driving the old one better!!!  Son of a )*&%&($!!!!

Now what do I do?

Josh in West Virginia
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Josh Miller, Attorney, hockey player, son, brother, friend and busnut...
1983 MCI MC9 8V71 and a 5 Speed
Wheeling, WV
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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2011, 06:35:31 AM »

why do you like the old one better? what do you feel is better about it?
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iMPAKS.com
Raleigh, NC
1983 MCI MC-9
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« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2011, 06:39:49 AM »

Big difference between driving the two and owning one for the long term.

I suspect the 2 cycle with a manual transmission would be nice for the short term. Nothing is sweeter than the sound of the 2 cycle exhaust, or more fun than rowing through the gears.

But in the long run the fuel mileage of the Series 60 is going to be a big difference in which bus gets chosen when you want to do long trips. Unless you drive very little or only take short trips my guess the Series 60 is more practical.
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Jon Wehrenberg
Knoxville TN
1997 Prevost Liberty
ojgetaway32
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« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2011, 06:41:06 AM »

I really can't put my finger on it.  I like shifting gears?  The stainless steel sides and round headlights give it charisma?  It is my first?  It freaking flys on flat ground?  It doesn't look institutional?  I don't know...

I need counseling...

Josh in West Virginia
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Josh Miller, Attorney, hockey player, son, brother, friend and busnut...
1983 MCI MC9 8V71 and a 5 Speed
Wheeling, WV
robertglines1
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« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2011, 06:43:31 AM »

one is 6 inches wider than other inside. So you must decide trade off's  fuel mileage and longevity .Your decision ---your buses.  notice at bottom my by-line    Bob
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Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
ojgetaway32
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« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2011, 06:47:11 AM »

For example about things you cannot explain:

I am a die hard Pittsburgh Penguin fan.  When I went to law school in Columbus, OH, the Columbus Blue Jackets of the NHL were just coming to town.  I figured tremendous!  I can go catch a couple games in the "show", they will be my second favorite team, I can get my live NHL fix while I am in the process of higher learning.  It will great to root for an Ohio team instead of against them.  But everytime I went, I walked in rooting for the Jackets and walked out rooting for whomever was playing against them.  There was no real reason.  The team has class and is no natural enemy of mine or the Penguins.  Inexplicable...

Josh in West Virginia
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Josh Miller, Attorney, hockey player, son, brother, friend and busnut...
1983 MCI MC9 8V71 and a 5 Speed
Wheeling, WV
ojgetaway32
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« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2011, 06:50:19 AM »

robertglines:

I know, I get it.  Everything about the 102D3 is better on paper.  I cannot understand why I like the 9 better!  That is my whole point!!!  I am looking for the philosophy or psychology of why I like it, not the facts of why I should!!!

Josh in West Virginia
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Josh Miller, Attorney, hockey player, son, brother, friend and busnut...
1983 MCI MC9 8V71 and a 5 Speed
Wheeling, WV
Oonrahnjay
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« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2011, 06:50:31 AM »

 (snip)   notice at bottom my by-line    Bob

     Yes, this is my last one, too.  People ask me "when will it be finished".  I tell them "There are three stages of 'finished' with this thing.  Stage 1 is when it's on the road and useable and everything works, stage 2 is when it's all pretty and tarted up inside and out, stage 3 is when I die".
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
1976 Daimler (British) Double-Decker Bus; 34' long
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« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2011, 07:02:39 AM »

I've heard others say the MC-9 is the best driving bus compared to later MCI's before.  Doesn't surprise me that you find a difference.  BusWarrior has some insights that he's shared in other posts, he's driven about them all.

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
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« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2011, 07:19:51 AM »

It  will take you a while but the DL3 is a better bus than a  9 IMO, driving characteristics are different the air bags are mounted outwards from a 9 and 45 ft takes awhile to get the swing down lol but in time it will grow on you and with out the underpowered 8v71 you will be happy and I believe you have 11.2 series 60

good luck
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bevans6
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« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2011, 07:52:06 AM »

This made me think back and ask "what was the best driving car that I ever owned?"  And God help me, it was a 1974 Pontiac LeMans.  this fact alone makes me think that you will come to love the new bus as much as the old bus - that's wasn't really a very good car at all...

Brian   Grin
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
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« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2011, 08:26:05 AM »

I think you are just learning something about yourself.  Seems to you, the "classic,throwback" aspect of the MC9 trumps any technical or practical advantages of the 102D3.

I have come to terms with that aspect of my own personality.  Funny, but I was just thinking the other day that if wanted a new car, I would NOT buy anything brand new at all... I would go to Hemmings Motor news and buy something like a 5K original  mile 1992 Cadillac Brougham for my everyday car.  It doesn't make any practical sense at all, but it's just who I am.

Oh, and don't expect very many people to understand.  You just have to accept the fact that few will understand and that there will always be head shakers.

Marc
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 08:29:34 AM by thejumpsuitman » Logged

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Ericbsc
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« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2011, 08:44:18 AM »

I just finished installing a 60 and allison 6 sp. in my eagle. I had an 8-71n. We have a 7% 4 mile grade. With the 8-71, 14 mph 2nd gear, pedal thru. the floor!!! With the 60, 57 mph, 3/4 throttle. Fuel mileage 30-40 % better, and will pass when I want to, without the dragonfly method. Its a no brainer!!!! I like old cars with carbs, but when I make a trip it is in a newer car with electronics. I guess its a dependability thing even though I do miss the humm of the 2 stroke. Just my 2 cents or less!!!
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2011, 08:46:05 AM »

Clifford I think he just has the "D" 40' model not the "DL" 45' model.

But I'm like you I think once he gets used to the power f a 60 series in a 40' coach he'll love it.

That said some of us are drawn to the old school looks of stainless & chrome! (dad always tells people chrome is my favorite color! Wink )
Grin  BK  Grin

Of course on the other hand I remember a couple years ago helping Three Rivers Travel out and I was right on the tail of one of his Eagles with an 8V92 loving that sound the whole night.
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
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« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2011, 09:17:46 AM »

A couple of years ago, my daughter and her husband bought an old Plymouth Valiant.  They said that they liked driving a classic.  I told them that I didn't even like it when it was new, that it was sluggish, clunky, and relatively uncomfortable.  They said that they liked it.  However, whenever they had to take a trip beyond local errands, I could see that they drove their other car.  After a bit, they sold the Valiant.
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« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2011, 09:35:51 AM »

  I dont know about all the Buses so much yet, other than what I like the looks of, but we sure dont all drive the same cars. Some like pickup trucks, some like lil sports cars, some like a stick, some really dont or cant figure it out so they stick with an auto. Some like to hear the motor, some dont want to hear anything. Some people keep moving up, and up, to the next best latest and greatest, most complex thing on the planet, some like an older simpler classics. Maybe some see it as keeping up with the jones's, maybe some dont give a rats butt who the Jones's are.

  I would say drive what you like and dont care what anyone else thinks you should own. I learned quite young that no matter how much power or speed you have, someone will always have more. No matter how fast your climbing a grade, someones still going to pass you in a bigger heavier something. But at the end of the day, are they any happier than you are? And why would you care? Your the only one who has to like it.

  
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thejumpsuitman
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« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2011, 09:41:07 AM »

Well you can take that to an extreme...  Notice I said I would go find a low mileage 1992 Caddy for a driver.  I didn't say a 1959,
even though a '59 is  WAY cooler.

On deciding which bus to keep, I would give it a while and let the emotional aspect simmer down. As cool as something can seem, there's always the saying, "familiarity breeds contempt".

Marc
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« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2011, 09:52:42 AM »

I just had a brain wave!! Most of us drive a bus in the 10-60 year old range!!!! How funny is that?Huh May have something to do with the six figure factory conversions, or the 600k shell cost!!!!!
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« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2011, 09:56:58 AM »

That is funny.  To a lot of guys on here, a 1983 MC9 is new-fangled.
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robertglines1
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« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2011, 10:03:16 AM »

Easy: add on to barn. no brainer. Grin  ask BK about old yellow car in back lean-to surrounded by lumber. Just go get icecream in it. Shocked    Bob
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Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
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« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2011, 10:06:37 AM »

  Probably the biggest factor is getting service, the 2stroke is getting old, we all hear the newer younger guys dont know what their doing with them, gotta be your own mechanic. The rest of it has more to do with condition rather than physical age, a Bus is a Bus really. Steel hoops, aluminum and stainless skin riveted on. Wheels and brakes and air bags are all about the same, many of the same parts. However, the cost of a rebuilt auto trans would more than pay for most MC-9's right now.
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Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2011, 10:21:42 AM »

My bus is 43 years old, my truck is 52, my sports car is 49, and my jeep is 24.  Total age of them is 168 years. Average age is 42. Grin
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1968 MCI 5A with 8V71 and Allison MT644 transmission.  Western USA
Just Dallas
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« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2011, 11:48:54 AM »

My take on it is the same as some of the other posters. I like my old stuff.... I can work on it and don't have to pay someone for the privilege of lightening my wallet, not that there is much there to make lighter.
We had a 1989 VW Cabriolet for a toad that we took in trade for some work we did. The poor old thing was on it's last legs and we spent over $2000 on parts, plus the work I put into it, along with work done by some very good bus friends that I can't count the amount of... bottom line, is that it was still junk and needed about another $3000 put into it. But it was towable.

Wife went to SC to visit her parents and came home with a 2006 Ford Taurus, (One of the Ugliest Automobiles EVER built.. IMNSHO).

The VW was sold, which just about paid for the tax, license, title and insurance on the Ford.

The Ford has NO USER SERVICEABLE PARTS. I can't even change the oil without having an OBDII scanner that has the ability to reset the oil change menu.
It has no spark plug wires, or user serviceable spark plugs. There is no ignition coil or coil pack. The coils are actually on top of each spark plug, on top of each rocker cover, about like the way the old Hemi 331 and 354 were set up... except anyone could work on them!

Now... for old buses. Yeah, it would be great to have a nice fancy 102" with a 4 stroke DD or a Cat or a Cummins or a MAN, but, unfortunately, I can't or don't want to work on those.
If an MUI DD 2 stroke quits, there are only a few things it can be. If an electronically controlled diesel engine quits on the road... you call road service and have it towed to the nearest service facility. Then you pay their prices to repair it, (Which, BTW, will buy you a laptop and the prolink software and connections in very short order).

My oldy PD4103 GMC is a very simple system. It's the big brother of the PD4104 and all that came after, including the MCIs and the Prevosts.
Yeah, it's a spring ride, no problem. I've added an aux air ride in the back, and still don't have to block it to crawl under it. It has Arm Strong steering, but I defy anyone to be able to back into spaces I've gotten into in one try with their power steering. (One was between two trees and was 38'... I made it in the first try.), I'm also in my late 50's, (sorry, I don't remember what year... my wife will add that later), and I learned many years ago with my old Studebaker two ton truck, never fight the steering. Don't steer it unless you are moving. It makes it a lot easier. Not like Power steering, but then again, I can drive down the road and steer with two fingers and feel what the road and the machine is saying to me.

If you have the money and the inclination, by all means, go for the newer, faster, more expensive DDEC or whatever flavor electronic controls you want. Me, I'm looking for a 1991 Neoplan AN345 with the original MUI 6V92 and 5 speed manual transmission.

BTW.. we were going up the south side of Jellico a couple of years ago in our 4103 and passed a number of DL3's that belonged to the charter company where we were going to work on a bus.
We got to the Charter yard 45 minutes ahead of those buses and were parked, plugged in and set up before they ever got to the gate, but our bus only does 64 mph and the charter buses would do well over 75 mph.

It gives a bit of a pause for thought doesn't it?

Off the soap box now!
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« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2011, 07:38:54 PM »

SO does that mean you might be selling the old one?
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« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2011, 08:35:06 PM »

I sold my 1950 Harley and built the motorcycle of my dreams. It was still a hard tail but had the best engine and all the best parts. The old Harley I put 30k miles a year. The new motorcycle sat in the garage. Afther 3 years only 3k miles. Sold it and got a 1964 bus I sure miss that old Harley, but I sure like my new old bus. I worried to much about the new motorcycle. It was getting dirty some one might touch it. Just never had the same feel or personality. It was just a machine to me. Only had my bus a few months and it's talking to me like the old pan used to. Maybe it's just because it so different then whats else is on the road. I'm not sure. Take a long time to make up your mind on which bus you keep. I'm sure the new one will be a lot easier to drive, but will it bring you as much joy? Injoy them both for what they are.
Kevin
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« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2011, 08:43:53 PM »

Oh yea the 60 series and the B500 will bring him much joy compared to 8v71 and a 5 speed lol

good luck
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