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Author Topic: Installing "Electronic" Engine in older bus  (Read 2021 times)
Oonrahnjay
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« on: October 28, 2011, 03:25:56 PM »

     I have heard several people on this bus talking about installing computer-controlled engines into an older bus.  In general, what's involved?  I can see water temp, oil temp, rpm, etc. but all those items are on the engine, right?  Is there any more than connecting them to the ECM?  What do people do for a Road Speed Sensor (I have a "click" type on my bus, there is a little cam on a spur off the transmission and every time that the shaft turns over, it breaks and then re-makes an electrical speed sensor).  My guess here is that it's the details that drive you crazy, cost you money and take up 10 times as much time as you ever thought ...
     I'm not in a great hurry about this (unless the British boat anchor that's in my bus now decides to go South before I think it will) but I'd like to investigate what's involved.
    Thanks for any help,   BH  NC USA
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
1976 Daimler (British) Double-Decker Bus; 34' long
6-cyl, 4-stroke, Leyland O-680 engine

(New Email -- brucebearnc@ (theGoogle gmail place) .com)
luvrbus
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« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2011, 03:52:28 PM »

A little more to it than that Bruce some truck mgfs use their own electronic system to communicate to the engine for the speedometer,tach,oil,temperature,cruise and for the other gauges to work another 500 dollar program for the ProLink lol it will drive you nuts.

 FWIW I have friend that has over 10 grand invested in his Prolink and different software and had to spend another 800 bucks to work on a Navistar truck last week


good luck
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 04:09:59 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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azdieselman
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« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2011, 05:13:51 PM »

Clifford, Can you please email me. I have a question about another post, I'm not a member there and can't reply directly.  Thanks, Kevin    kmlooney@msn.com
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1980 Mod 10
Bill B /bus
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« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2011, 05:20:38 PM »

Well the simple answer is 'Of course!'. However the real answer is will the engine fit?  How good are your welding and fabrication skills?  Do you understand the electronics involved? If you can answer positively to all the questions then take out your checkbook and you too can install an electronically controlled engine. Not an easy job. Long, time consuming and sometimes frustrating.

Bill
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Bill & Lynn
MCI102A3, Series 50 w/HT70
belfert
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« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2011, 06:09:01 PM »

My bus is a 1995 and came with a factory installed Series 60.  My gauges are all analog and connect to senders on the engine like most buses.  The only exception is the original speedometer was electronic off the computer.  The previous owner installed a speedometer that runs off 4 bolts on the drum for some silly reason.

You would need to have an engine with J1939 if you want to use totally electronic gauges.  With a Series 60 you really need a DDEC IV computer for J1939 to work right.  The Series 60 has J1708 too, but I couldn't find anyone still selling J1708 gauges.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2011, 08:08:03 PM »

Never saw analog gauges on a EGR series 60 in trucks in years not saying it cannot be done you just never see it now all the truck mfgs use their own dash electronics tied to the ECM same with Prevost with the D13 Volvo engine.

I have friend installing a ISX Cummins in a bus the gauges are eating his lunch so he is installing the dash with computer from the truck to make all the functions work Cummins has been no help they told him to try the truck mfg  


good luck
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 08:17:26 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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Oonrahnjay
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« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2011, 09:50:36 PM »

Yeah, thank goodness I have a manual transmission.  I appreciate the info - anybody else, please add to this. 

Bill B, yes, my original engine is almost 60 " long.  A Series 50 (not that that seems to be highly recommended by anyone on here) is about a foot and a half shorter.  My fab skills are very good; welding non-existant but I have *excellent* help.  Electrons aren't my strong suit but I can follow a diagram (in my day, I've drawn and published a fair number of them).

Clifford, are you saying that your friend is having to install an "instrument computer module" that matches the ISX Cummins instruments and also the electronic module for the engine?  Yeah, I kinda thought that that would be necessary.
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
1976 Daimler (British) Double-Decker Bus; 34' long
6-cyl, 4-stroke, Leyland O-680 engine

(New Email -- brucebearnc@ (theGoogle gmail place) .com)
TomC
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« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2011, 10:35:12 PM »

If converting from a mechanical engine to an electronic engine (which I think is a big mistake-have one electronic breakdown and all the fuel mileage advantage of the electronic engine goes down the drain), the easiest would be to buy a complete truck or bus with the engine in it you want to use.  Then you can take all the necessary components and see how they are wired before removing them.

I'll stick to my good old 8V-71 and 3406B mechanical engines.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2011, 08:38:27 AM »

Will need an electronic fuel pedal also. I bought sensors and new gauges, not using ECM for dash. Mine is older (1708), cruise is great, idle adjust, no smoke under load,( I do get a puff of black at start up). Rewired whole dash and all panels, relays, circuit breakers all rewired. No problems.  Tom Y
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Tom Yaegle
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« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2011, 09:20:39 AM »

An EGR Series 60 is a newer engine and by that time they had working J1939 so I wouldn't doubt that vehicles by that time had electronic gauges.  I just know that I have all analog gauges with my 1995 Series 60.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2011, 09:32:45 AM »

Why not just install a Silverleaf?  The VMS 400 or the expensive digital dash give you all instruments and are simple and foolproof.  Just plug the data cable into the Silverleaf port.  I have the 400 series and love it, it also functions as the rear camera screen.  My only analog gauges are air pressure, volts, fuel, diff temp, and just for redundency an oil pressure, water temp using regular senders.  I like the Silverleaf diagnostics too, any fault codes are in simple to understand terminology.  Well worth the cost.
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'47 GM PD3751-438
'65 Crown Atomic
Vancouver, WA USA
luvrbus
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« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2011, 09:39:29 AM »

Brian, these new trucks you cannot even add a light without having the dash reprogrammed fwiw
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2011, 09:44:05 AM »

Brian, these new trucks you cannot even add a light without having the dash reprogrammed fwiw

Ain't no way I could live with that "chicken haulers" have to have lot's of lights and chrome! LOL!
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
luvrbus
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« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2011, 09:48:57 AM »

Yep BK you probably like the girls with all the chrome lol
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« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2011, 10:26:37 AM »

  My Bus is EMP proof, and I intend to keep it that way, all the way.
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