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Author Topic: Series 60 verses 8v92  (Read 8069 times)
TomC
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« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2011, 08:55:21 PM »

I have seen Series 60's installed in MC6's.  It's the only bus that makes the Series 60 look small since the engine compartment is so huge.  The best setup is the 4000 series or B500 Allison 6spd for overall performance.  If you want an automated transmission but not concerned with acceleration, then the Ultra Shift from Eaton in the 10, or 13spd will give you the best fuel mileage.  Personally-I LOVE the performance of the Allison.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Seayfam
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« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2011, 10:38:50 PM »

Watch it there Eric a 8v92 will dance with 60 series a 8v71 n/a series will do a slow waltz (very slow) my 8v92 was 1580 lbs of torque and I got over 7mpg every day up hill or down hill same as most Eagle guy with series 60 better than Wayne's Cummins he was around 5.5


good luck

Clifford,
What transmission did you have? Also gearing, tire size and weight? If I could achieve what you got with your bus, I would really consider tuning and playing with the gearing on my bus. My engine and transmission only have 47,000 miles on them right now. The engine runs really smooth starts easy and the transmission shifts really good. It just seems to lag in the power department and get really bad milage with the trailer. If I run empty and don't have the trailer and stay at 55mph on flat ground, I can get 6mpg.
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Gary Seay (location Alaska)
1969 MCI MC-6 unit# 20006
8V92 turbo 740 auto
more pics and information here     "  www.my69mci-6.blogspot.com  "
Seayfam
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« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2011, 10:56:50 PM »

I have seen Series 60's installed in MC6's.  It's the only bus that makes the Series 60 look small since the engine compartment is so huge.  The best setup is the 4000 series or B500 Allison 6spd for overall performance.  If you want an automated transmission but not concerned with acceleration, then the Ultra Shift from Eaton in the 10, or 13spd will give you the best fuel mileage.  Personally-I LOVE the performance of the Allison.  Good Luck, TomC

Tom, I wish I could see one of them in person!
So what I get out of all this is... The S60 with the 4000 series or B500 transmissions are no longer than my 8v92 and 740? The electronics part of this conversion doesn't intimidate me at all. I am very familiar with all of today's automotive electronics, that is what I did for the city that I live in. My brother is the lead heavy duty mechanic for the state of Alaska here also. He has every specialty tool and computer to work with today's equipment and if he doesn't have it, the shop does.

One more question, Do you know if I can use the Bennett shifter that is in my bus with the B500? Or do I have to replace all of it front to rear?
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Gary Seay (location Alaska)
1969 MCI MC-6 unit# 20006
8V92 turbo 740 auto
more pics and information here     "  www.my69mci-6.blogspot.com  "
jackhartjr
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« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2011, 05:31:50 AM »

Tom, you said, "Ultra Shift from Eaton in the 10, or 13spd".  Is that similar to a 'Super 10'?
Thanks
Jack
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Jack Hart, CDS
1956 GMC PD-4501 #945 (The Mighty SCENICRUISER!)
8V71 Detroit
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white-eagle
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« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2011, 05:47:35 AM »

Gary, after reading what you're doing and how your going to do it, you are correct.  at your age and all those miles, converting to a 60 sounds like a good idea.  i assumed you were just taking it on the occasional trip like we do, not over 5 or 6000 a year.

Have Fun!.
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Tom
1991 Eagle 15 and proud of it.
8V92T, 740, Fulltime working on the road.

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luvrbus
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« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2011, 06:54:32 AM »

You lose the Stone Bennett Gary but they are easy to sell I ran 3:33 gears with a FS (fuel saver) 740 Allison,Don Fairchild runs a DDEC 8v82 with a 4060 Allison towing his 1  ton truck he averages around 8 to 9 mpg,Jones has 8v92 DDEC 1 in his Eagle he is 7 to 8 mpg and both keep their foot to floor and they cannot story to you plug the Pro Link in and it tells the truth.

I was happy with my 8v92 for power and mileage ran all over the west with friends with Cummins,Cat and series 60 engines they could never shake me at the mountains or fuel stops lol.

Only thing I never could correct around 4 or 5 o'clock on a 110 degree day with the new fuel getting hot you could notice a drop in power and with the 60 series it didn't seem to drop off,I loved my 8v92 they are a good engine if taken care of and I loved my Stone/Bennett also

good luck
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 04:50:12 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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bobofthenorth
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« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2011, 08:44:45 AM »

I'm pretty sure I'll never swap out my 8-92, particularly since its got so few miles on a Luke rebuild.  But if I did swap it I've always thought that the way to do it is to buy a highway tractor with the engine/trans combo that you want and swap the package.  When I read about the troubles people have with the swaps they seem to centre around getting the trans/engine electronics to talk to each other.  It seems to me the simple way to avoid that is to start with a pair that are already married to each other.  Someone who has already done the swap could likely poke holes in my theory but it makes sense to me.
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R.J.(Bob) Evans
1981 Prevost 8-92, 10 spd
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2011, 09:11:15 AM »

Bob O the N,
You are such a wise man it is not even funny!
Brian Diehl did exactly that and while he had a couple issues his swap was fairly straight forward and clean.
http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ediehls0792_1/BusSection10.html
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
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TomC
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« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2011, 09:38:58 AM »

Gary-the HT740 and the 4000 series are just about the same length.  The Series 60 will be about 8" longer then the 8V-92TA. The Stone-Bennett shifter is an electronic over air shifter for a mechanical transmission. The Allison will require you to use its' own shifter-whether it be the push button or electronic handled shifter.

Jack-a Super 10 is a manual shift 10spd that was made (no longer made) by Eaton Roadranger.  It has a 5spd shifter and you split each gear as you go-so less shifter moving.  Eaton took their Roadranger transmissions and automized them.  Basically removed the manual shifter and replaced them with a two motor shifter (X & Y shifter) running through their computer that also talks to the engine computer.  The first version was the AutoSelect-where you still had a clutch pedal to start and stop only.  Then when a shift was desired, you lifted the gas pedal and allowed the transmission to shift and reapplied the power.  Not real successful.  Next was the AutoShift where you still have a clutch pedal but the transmission shifts completely automatically (available in both 10 and 18spd close ratio).  Then Roadranger brought out the UltraShift (in 10spd and 13spd) that has no clutch pedal using a centrifugal clutch.  Not to good since the clutch never really engages-you only get about 100,000 miles of clutch life (considering I had 1.2 million miles on my clutch when I changed it to the Allison HT740).  Most recently Roadranger has brought out the UltraShift Plus that has a regular clutch in it that is electronically controlled.  The clutch works during each shift, so the shifts only take about a half of a second.  These are available in most all transmissions- 10, 11, 13, and wide ratio 18spd.  Even though they shift faster, the engine still has to release torque to shift-hence they still sound and feel like a manual transmission shifting.

I'm waiting for the new Allison 10spd twin countershaft torque converter equipped automatic to come out.  Efficiency of a manual transmission with the acceleration and instant shifting of a hydraulic Allison transmission.  Best of all worlds.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Lin
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« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2011, 10:26:39 AM »

If you were starting with an 8v71 and asking which would be a better conversion--8v92 or Series 60, than Series 60 would be obvious.  However, I am wondering if your 8v92 is producing as it should.  It should be in the 470 - 500 HP range, or roughly equivalent to the Series 60.  I understand the four stroke will have more torque, but I doubt that that alone will convert your cresting at 15 mph to 50 mph.  It would seem that you could first try to tweak as much power as you can from what you have to fairly evaluate the need for a change.
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busguy01
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« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2011, 11:00:21 AM »

Using a truck engine you will need several extra parts - low profile pan with pick up tube and a flex plate to mate with the transmission. Been there done that on an Eagle -- love it. Will send you a PM RE: engine/trans
JimH
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Started with nothing - still have most of it left!
1963 Eagle 01 with Detroit 60 series done (Gone-sold!)
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Seayfam
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« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2011, 11:02:49 AM »

This has been some really good advise guys. I like getting everyone's opinions and making my decisions from there.

I am in the planning stages right now, and am trying to get all my ducks in a row. If I decide to go this route, I want to get the cost and all the parts together before I start.

BK, Thanks for that article! It was a good read!

Maybe like Len mentioned, I might need to check out my motor and see if all is right. As mentioned, my engine has only got 47k on it. I am pretty sure it has never had the rack run. Do you guys think that would have anything to do with it? The engine is not the silver series and it is a single turbo non electronic. I'm guessing around 400hp and maybe 1,000# tq. ?

I also believe my rear is really high geared? The bus will fly down the hi way, it won't shift into 4th until you get to 55mph.
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Gary Seay (location Alaska)
1969 MCI MC-6 unit# 20006
8V92 turbo 740 auto
more pics and information here     "  www.my69mci-6.blogspot.com  "
Seayfam
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« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2011, 11:09:50 AM »

Using a truck engine you will need several extra parts - low profile pan with pick up tube and a flex plate to mate with the transmission. Been there done that on an Eagle -- love it. Will send you a PM RE: engine/trans
JimH

Thanks Jim, I would really appreciate that!!!
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Gary Seay (location Alaska)
1969 MCI MC-6 unit# 20006
8V92 turbo 740 auto
more pics and information here     "  www.my69mci-6.blogspot.com  "
RJ
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« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2011, 11:28:33 AM »

Gary -

By all means, run the rack on your 8V before you start spending $$$ for a engine swap.

Pull a valve cover and see what injectors you've got.  There will be a round tag on the side with a letter/number combination on it.  Post what you find here, and either Clifford or TomC can convert to HP/torque for that configuration.

You might find that running the rack and maybe an injector change may provide the power you want.

Worth a bit of time to find out!

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
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luvrbus
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« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2011, 11:39:52 AM »

Torque is not the difference in a 8v92 and series 60 I can get the same torque as the series 60 with a 8v92 the problem is a 8v92 does not have the long flat torque curve as a series 60 and won't hold the torque like a series 60 it falls off twice as fast,the long stroke on a 60 series gives it the advantage that is the reason they are so tall

good luck
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 11:46:46 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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