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Author Topic: Series 60 verses 8v92  (Read 7794 times)
Seayfam
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« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2011, 12:19:58 PM »

Gary -

By all means, run the rack on your 8V before you start spending $$$ for a engine swap.

Pull a valve cover and see what injectors you've got.  There will be a round tag on the side with a letter/number combination on it.  Post what you find here, and either Clifford or TomC can convert to HP/torque for that configuration.

You might find that running the rack and maybe an injector change may provide the power you want.

Worth a bit of time to find out!

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink

Ok, I pulled the vlv cover, the number I got is.... 9A90
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Gary Seay (location Alaska)
1969 MCI MC-6 unit# 20006
8V92 turbo 740 auto
more pics and information here     "  www.my69mci-6.blogspot.com  "
belfert
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« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2011, 12:59:01 PM »

I installed a 12.7 series 60 in my eagle. I used the Allison 4000 mhp tranny. It is a 6 speed double overdrive with a .74 5th, and .64 6th (may have those backward?). I changed the ratio to a 4:11. What a package!!!! 65 mph 1360 rpm. 70 mph 1450 rpm. Went up a 7% 4 mile grade last week. Shifted from 6 th to 5th. Running 57 at the top. With my two stroke I was

Isn't 1360 RPM the lower end of what the Allison World series likes?  My Dina has a Series 60 with B500.  The gearing is 4.10:1.  6th gear is locked out and not available.  The explanation I got for not using 6th gear is the RPMs would fall below the Allison minimum.  I asked at the local Allison dealer about getting 6th gear activated.  It would require $600 and a letter from an engineer at the manufacturer okaying the change.

My Series 60 is pretty small (350 HP) so it doesn't climb hills like a rocket like the guys with 475 HP.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2011, 01:09:41 PM »

I have researched Allison's web site. According to Allison the 4000 is much shorter than the 740.\

740 overall length: 37.4"  840 lbs.

4000 overall length: 31.2"  831 lbs.

4000 6.2" shorter.

 I had both side by side in my shop. Seems close to what I measured.
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« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2011, 01:15:05 PM »

I have only put about 2000 miles on mine with this setup. So far shifts are great and it hums along at 1360-1460 in 6th gear. On a long climb it will shift to 5th. In 5th at 65 best I remember was in the 1500-1550 range. I know if one Eagle with a 60. 740 and a 3:36 rear. He is at about 1800 at 70 mph. That may be high?? I don't know
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rusty
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« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2011, 01:33:02 PM »

For the first 80,000 miles of life my eagle with the big cam 400, 740 trans,3:73 rear end,and driving at between 1900 and 2000 RPM"S I was getting 5.5mpg's ( as Clifford said). That is one good thing about that Cummins it will run there all day, all you have to do is put fuel in it. I slowed down to 65 and put a 3:38 rear end and now get closer to 6.5 MPG.

Wayne
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2011, 02:12:50 PM »

Before swapping out the 8V92 I'd check with Don Fairchild he can make that 8V92 sing & get fuel mileage @ the same time.
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

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kyle4501
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« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2011, 02:31:28 PM »

Ok, I pulled the vlv cover, the number I got is.... 9A90

IIRC, that injector is good for 450HP. I'd have the rack run & the rest of the engine checked by someone who KNOWS what they're doing before going thru all the work to change engines. . .
If you frequently find yourself needing a gear between 3rd & 4th - 4th ain't enough, but 3rd is too much - you could look into putting in a 754CR for less $$ & time . . . .
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2011, 02:35:34 PM »

Gary, you have been given some good advice.  A couple of items for reference:

1)  If you subscribe to BCM, take a look at my three part series on engine conversion (Oct./Nov./Dec 2009)

2)  My project pages discusses the Series 60/AutoShift conversion in my '85 Eagle (see signature).

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
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TomC
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« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2011, 03:18:03 PM »

The 9A90's will give you 435hp and 1275lb/ft torque.  If you have a by pass valve on your blower (looks like a small can on the top back of the blower) it will put out more like 450hp and 1350lb/ft torque.  With 9G90's, will have 450hp still but closer to 1,400lb/ft torque-better spray pattern.  Only the DDEC engines (from Detroit) were up in the 475hp and 500hp range with 1550lb/ft torque.

The difference in mileage-8V-92TA with electronic injection (DDEC) will get 1 mpg better then an mechanically injected engine.  The Series 60 engine compared to a DDEC 8V-92TA-the S60 will get 1 mpg better then the 8V-92TA.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Seayfam
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« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2011, 06:19:03 PM »

Thanks for all this wonderful advise. With all I got from this, I decided that I'm going to run the rack and go with 9G90's for now.  Hopefully I can get it to 450hp and 1400# torque!         

I don't have the by pass valve on my blower so I'm assuming that with my injectors and everything tuned, I would be at 435hp at best. So this should make some difference.

I live in a commercial fishing town and two stroke Diesel mechanics are a dime a dozen. I would say about 75% of the boats around here are two stroke Detroit's. I shouldn't have a hard time getting the injectors and the proper tools to do this.

I'm going to try and do it in the next couple of days. We have a really nice long grade leaving town here that I can try it on. Every time I've headed out of town, my average speed on that grade was 30mph in second gear.

Stay tuned for update.
Thanks again, you guys are wonderful!! This is why I asked.
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Gary Seay (location Alaska)
1969 MCI MC-6 unit# 20006
8V92 turbo 740 auto
more pics and information here     "  www.my69mci-6.blogspot.com  "
luvrbus
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« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2011, 07:20:25 PM »

Gary, changing the 9A90's to 9G90's are not going to help you the 9A90's will get 475 hp with the right blower and setting send me your turbo number and I have a bypass blower here I'll make you deal on,the bypass blower is the best improvement you can do on a 8v92.

The turbo has to be the right one to do what you trying to make happen too a small hot housing on the turbo gives you low end torque the larger housing gives you the high end torque you need to decide what you want and how the engine is setup before installing different injectors it could make things worse instead of better just trying to save you some grief and money, what is your turbo boost ?



good luck  

 
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 07:23:54 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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Don Fairchild
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« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2011, 07:38:56 PM »

There is more to it than that. You need to know what cams and liners are in the engine. You say you have a green engine, if the is true then you have tall ports and standard cams. You will never get the torque with that set up. Clifford is that blower a 100% with by pass or 83%. Change the injectors and blower, change the turbo from the 8101 that is probably on it now to a TV8511 or TV 8512 with a 1.23 hot housing and it will run a lot better. why not find a HD4060 and have Clifford get the black box for the engine from Cole, then change the rear gears to 4:56's it will run up and down the hill at a better speed. But first give us the serial Number from the engine and let us check what the engine is.

Don

UCJ. Dan There is no such thing as a good cummins engine
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 07:41:25 PM by Don Fairchild » Logged
rv_safetyman
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« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2011, 07:41:27 PM »

Gary, it sounds like you are going to borrow the tools (really only the injector height gauge) and run the rack yourself.  While "the book" tells you how to do the work, an experienced 2 stroke mechanic has developed a "feel" for adjustment process.  Can make all the difference.  

If you have not done the process, I would borrow the mechanic as well as the tools and have them teach you how to "finesse" the process.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
Bill B /bus
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« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2011, 07:41:44 PM »

As a good buddy said yesterday " What's this a 'running the rack' crap? Adjust the damn injectors and valves first. Then makes sure the governor gives full fuel. Then run the damn rack"  
The 9G90's would be great but do all the other stuff first. That way you know what you need based on your driving style. With a bunch of 2 stroke mechanics around that should be relatively inexpensive. Blower bypass. Grab that. Turbos are critical. And are another science in  themselves. You tell the turbo man what you want the engine to accomplish and magically appears the turbo you wanted. Of course you will spend some money.

Bill

Don chimed in with great advice. So that supercedes my part two. But I still stick by part one.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 07:44:43 PM by Bill B /bus » Logged

Bill & Lynn
MCI102A3, Series 50 w/HT70
luvrbus
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« Reply #44 on: October 30, 2011, 08:01:38 PM »

I ran the numbers Don it is a 100% blower I have a mini bypass blower also for a 8v92 make work better for him,call me I need some liners for a 8v71 .020 over you have any low hour sets
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 08:10:07 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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