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Author Topic: Series 60 Smog Engines  (Read 3753 times)
TomC
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« on: November 02, 2011, 07:40:36 AM »

Off road engines uses a Tier system (1, 2, 3, etc).  On road engines uses the year the engine was built.  With Series 60's, up to 1998, there were basically no smog devices on the engine sans the electronic programming that made them much cleaner then mechanical engines.  After 1998, the timing was changed (retarded I believe) hence the fuel mileage suffered.  After 2002, 25% EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) was introduced and the fuel mileage suffered again.  For those that don't know-cool exhaust gases (goes through a coolant shell cooler) is used to displace oxygen in the combustion chamber to both slow and cool the combustion-hence nitrous oxides (the brown stuff in the air) is reduced.  Not a new thing for Diesels-my 1984 Mercedes Turbodiesel has it.  Then in 2007, a catalytic converter with Diesel Particulate Trap was added and again the fuel mileage suffered.  What was a nearly 8mpg engine (in big rig trucks) ended up being a 5.8mpg engine in 2007.  Then by 2010, the Series 60 was superseded by the DD series of 13, 15, and 16 liter engines.
In 2010 was introduced Diesel Exhaust Fluid (Urea that mixed with deionized water becomes a 32% ammonia mix) that is introduced after the particulate trap into the exhaust at a rate of 2% per gallon of fuel burned, EGR was reduced to 10%, fuel injection was changed from electronic unit injection to common rail.  And on the 15 and 16 liter, was added a turbo compounder.  Looks like half a turbocharger after the regular turbocharger (on the exhaust side) that is gear driven back into the rear valve gear train of the engine.  On a long hill pull, can put up to 50hp back into the engine-free horsepower!

When looking for a Series 60 to swap-look for a pre 1998 12.7 liter.  11.1 liter was made, but not as high horsepower.  The 14 liter came out with the 2002 addition of EGR-which 11.1 liter was cancelled at the same time.

The main reason the DD engines came out, is with the change over to common rail fuel injection, the elimination of the unit fuel injection rocker arm powered from the cam shaft also eliminated the means by which to power the Jake brake.  Also, compression ratio was raised and the Series 60 wasn't strong enough to handle this (according to Detroit-which I question).  Besides, they wanted a full line of engines from 350hp and 1250lb/ft torque to 600hp and 2050lb/ft torque.  They are getting excellent fuel mileage-that's why we're sold out of the DD line until next April!  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
luvrbus
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« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2011, 08:07:03 AM »

I saw a blown DD-15 with 180,000 mile on it yesterday at my Frieghtliner dealer had a gear failure they have a lot of crap driven from the rear man that engine was a mess I bet that trucker is going to be unhappy if he doesn't get a new engine till April lol 

good luck
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TomC
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« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2011, 08:46:54 AM »

We had a DD15 come in with 1,800 miles with an oil leak.  It was discovered the rear of the block had a crack by the gear train.  Detroit sent a new engine over night at no charge.  As with any new engine, there are teething problems-it also happened with the Series 60 when it was introduced.
The main problem is that there is no way to prime the oil filter-unless you have a power primer.  The way that is suggested to change the oil filter is to do just the oil change first.  Then with the empty new oil filter in place, start the engine at idle only-the oil fills quickly.  After the engine has settled in again with the new oil change-then change the fuel filters if necessary.  But with the new Davco 482 fuel/water separators made exclusively for the DD engines, the three fuel filters on the engine (one screen, two filters) only have to be changed every 100,000 miles-and the engine tells you when to change them.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Hard Headed Ken
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« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2011, 10:52:51 AM »

I've been following this guy's blog for a while. He's got the DD15 and getting some great fuel mileage. I have concerns about the complexity of the compound turbo, but the VNT's are also complex.

 http://sliceoftruckerlife.com/blogs/henry-albert/

Ken
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Mex-Busnut
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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2011, 01:38:30 PM »

Will a 60-series fit where a 8V71 used to be?
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« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2011, 04:03:35 PM »

...is used to displace oxygen in the combustion chamber to both slow and cool the combustion-hence nitrous oxides (the brown stuff in the air) is reduced. 

Nitrous Oxide (N20) in the cylinder would actually help the combustion nicely......the nasty stuff is Nitric Oxide (NO) and Nitrogen Dioxide (NO2).


Jeremy, being pedantic because everyone knew what you meant

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« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2011, 09:40:03 PM »

Yup, the DDC techs I know all say a 1997 S60 DDEC III is the last engine to go with.

Thanks for the summary Tom!!!

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2011, 10:53:05 PM »

  After 2002, 25% EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) was introduced and the fuel mileage suffered again.  Not a new thing for Diesels-my 1984 Mercedes Turbodiesel has it.  What was a nearly 8mpg engine (in big rig trucks) ended up being a 5.8mpg engine in 2007. 

  So they took an engine that got 8, and knocked it in half, because its cleaner to burn twice as much fuel. They did the same to all diesels. My 86 190D "had" EGR, a big 1 inch pipe off the exhaust manifold. Not only that, but it "had" a vacuum operated butterfly in the intake to choke off the air supply and make it breath (suck) even more exhaust. I wont say what I did, but it jumped from barely 25 MPG (which is absolutely criminal for a small diesel car), and sluggish, to 45 MPG plus, consistently, and much better performance. Some of the clowns at EPA should really lose their job.
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robertglines1
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« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2011, 05:53:44 AM »

I have a 2000   model out of a freight liner  I haven't  tried yet. Is there a solution/tune-up to restore fuel economy? Otherwise I will just enjoy the ride.  I drive about 8-10 thousand a year.   Bob
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luvrbus
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« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2011, 06:01:02 AM »

A 2000 model can be either Bob,2000 was the first year I know for series 50 and I have saw series 60 both ways in that time frame I believe TomC is right on his time frame.

Takes a new cam,injectors,bull gear and reprogramming along with a few other details that I forgot lol

The 60 series didn't hang around long after that they left in 2009

good luck
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 06:42:18 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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jackhartjr
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« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2011, 03:30:52 PM »

Tom, I LOVE this info, thanks! I am a little confused; Is a 1998 12.7L good or bad?  You say first they were good up to 98 with not much smog crap, then later that after 98 the timing was changed.  Then toward the end to look for a pre-98.  So where does that put a 98?
Thanks!
Jack
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TomC
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« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2011, 03:35:24 PM »

Have to run the numbers on the engine to see how the engine is tuned.  They had low power and high power settings then.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2011, 03:52:21 PM »

I have an 02 model 12.7. It is a ddec IV. The IV will comunicate via J1939 which I don't think the III is capable of. Could be wrong. The Detroit people tell me the IV was the best of them. According to them, better piston rod design, software, and none of the smog on the V. Best I can tell I am getting app. 8-8.5 mpg. Driving 55-65 most of the time. If my wife tells any of you I said I was getting 25-28 mpg please agree. Otherwise all that money I spent won't look like a big savings!!!LOL
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Zeroclearance
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« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2011, 04:13:03 PM »

I also have a '02 DDEC 4 engine.   From what I have seen in the book, it has all the updated parts>>rods, pistons, head studs and some refined ECU tuning.   I'm over 500HP.. running strong with 250K on the clock.

If money was no object I would invest in the 14.1ltr engine and configure it with a offroad serial number to get rid of the EGR. 
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robertglines1
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« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2011, 04:15:44 PM »

New experience here for me also: I understand the 2000 yr I have is DDEC IV it is coupled to a Eaton 10 spd b series Autoshift. I am trying to gather as much knowledge as I can. The valve cover says  430 hp/470 hp assuming the 470 is with cruise engaged (correct?)   BOB
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