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Author Topic: Fishbowl won't start, seconds before madien voyage...  (Read 2061 times)
Paxton
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« on: November 02, 2011, 06:48:40 PM »

I was just about to leave town, and my Newlook T8h-5305A died.  (8v71 no turbo)
the "low oil" buzzer was lit as I looked down, so I assumed I was low on oil.  she was below the low mark, but on the stick.  so I added my oil, and she still wont start.  my compartment mechanical oil pressure gauge does not read pressure as she cranks.  odd, but oil may possibly not be my problem.

I had taken her on a 30 mile round trip earlier today, she didnt miss a beat.  I had added a cetane booster and a water treatment to my rear tank before I topped off at the pump.  only took 12 gallons at the pump, so was very near full to begin with.

also, I turned open the fuel drains in both my filters, there seemed to be very little fuel dribbling out.  I can see the fuel level in my rear tanks fuller tube.

I'm not quite sure what to think.  I'm begining to think the low oil was not the problem.  I must have seen the "low oil" light as the engine died, because I do not believe there is a low oil shutdown on a new look. 

I also made sure the alison was in neutral when I tried starting.

I did give her a shot of ether and she started up for a sec.

So am I looking at a fuel problem?  I believe a detroit would start without oil pressure, would it not?

My fuel filters do not have 100 miles on them.

Could the addatives be hurting anything?  They were for a diesel engine for a fact.

Any help is much appreciated.

also, my engine stop air solenoid is working correctly...

-Paxton

« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 06:53:27 PM by Paxton » Logged
trucktramp
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« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2011, 06:58:38 PM »

Sounds like a fuel problem.  It could be the check valve crapped and you have lost prime.  Check your filters and see if they have fuel in them.  If they are low or empty you have  probably lost your prime.  If the injectors are not dry you should be able to refill and restart.  You can run it briefly on starting fluid until it picks up the fuel and runs.  Many do not like to do this but it will work.  Others will chime in with ideas that may help.
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Dennis Watson
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Timkar
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« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2011, 07:01:18 PM »

i would suspect a fuel problem. If you have a plug on top of filter housing remove it and see if you have fuel there.
If you don't have a plug, drop your filters and see if they have fuel in them. If not, fill them with fresh fuel and try again.
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Cawston, British Columbia
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« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2011, 07:04:20 PM »

Water treatment??? Do you mean a fuel dryer for gasoline. Bad, very bad.
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Scott Bennett
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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2011, 07:09:47 PM »

Please be super positive your engine stop solenoid is truly working correctly. This exact scenario happened to me and the engine stop lever was pushed in the wrong direction. Ran on ether...but would start and go. On the 6V92, the lever should be pulled TOWARD the REAR of the coach...not pushed towards the front. For what it's worth....
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Scott & Heather
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fe2_o3
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« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2011, 07:20:21 PM »

   Rear tank? How many does it have? Are you sure you're pulling from the correct tank? Life experience made me ask...Cable
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Sofar Sogood
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Paxton
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« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2011, 07:25:33 PM »

Engine stop solenoid is working correctly, tripple checked.  solenoid is pushing the lever, lever is rotating shaft that goes into the governer/throttle box.  All is working externally.
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Paxton
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« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2011, 07:31:50 PM »

My fishbowl has a pair of fuel tanks.  one behind the front wheels and one behind the center exit door. 

though I have not checked the level of the front tank.  I had assumed my front tank fed into the rear tank. When I fuel up, the rear tank is always full, and the front tank takes all the fuel.

Hmm... could feed off the front tank...

« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 07:37:13 PM by Paxton » Logged
Seayfam
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« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2011, 07:45:15 PM »

Water treatment??? Do you mean a fuel dryer for gasoline. Bad, very bad.

It sound like he is using a Diesel water treatment. If it is a emulsifier, it will mix the water with the fuel and pass through the filters. If it is a demulsifier, it will separate the water and the filters will catch it.

Paxton, I would make sure your filters are full of fuel and that you are pulling from the correct tank like already mentioned. You are fine with the addetives.

Good luck
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Gary Seay (location Alaska)
1969 MCI MC-6 unit# 20006
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Paxton
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« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2011, 08:10:08 PM »

Thanks for the replys everyone.  It helps to get uninvolved, less stressed views on the subject... a person tends to focus on the wrong things many a time.

I'll fill up both of my fuel filters and add some fuel to my front tank, see what that gets me... in the morning.

It has been dark and cold here in Montana for hours now, I'm going to take a hot shower and chew on all this.

Keep the help coming.

Thanks again,

-Paxton
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opus
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« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2011, 08:22:44 PM »

Where are you in MT?
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Paxton
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« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2011, 08:52:09 PM »

I'm in Harlowton, hopefully for only one more day.

I've seen that 2 tone bus of yours scootin' down the interstate before.
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opus
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« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2011, 08:56:57 PM »

Yeah thats a bit far for me to come help. Grin

It is a bit noticeable going down the road, isn't it?
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« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2011, 05:27:00 AM »

my 2 cents, old buses have been known to have collapsed fuel line, and I have seen a few with a fuel line tied to the side from the tank to the engine.  It has happened to a few here, also fuel treatments can dislodged crap and block stuff before it get to the filters.  Some have lightly (3-5 psi?) pressurized the fuel tanks to blow the lines.  If you do this, disconnect the line before the 1st F filter (closest inline to the tank)  put an air line in the fuel fill neck use a rag or whatever to block the fill neck  and lightly pressurize the tank.  
IT IS NOT A PRESSURE VESSEL ONLY ADD A LITTLE PRESSURE, DON'T LET THE TANK SWELL OR RUPTURE.
Fuel should flow out the disconnected fitting  and into a container you remembered to put there.  If no fuel comes out, you can try back blowing the line to clear it using air or fuel under pressure, then pressure the tank and try again.  Good luck, dress warm, keep it simple....Sounds like no fuel to me, plenty of priming in your future, check the threads re priming etc...
If the line is collapsed it will flow fuel under pressure but will not flow fuel being sucked so that can be confusing.....Keep it simple.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 06:48:15 AM by zubzub » Logged

5B Steve
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« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2011, 06:02:18 AM »

my 2 cents, old buses have been known to have collapsed fuel line, and I have seen a few with a fuel line tied to the side from the tank to the engine.  It has happened to a few here, also fuel treatments can dislodged crap and block stuff before it get to the filters.  Some have lightly (3-5 psi?) pressurized the fuel tanks to blow the lines.  If you do this, disconnect the line before the 1st F filter (closest inline to the tank)  put an air line in the fuel fill neck use a rag or whatever to block the fill neck  a lightly pressurize the tank. 
IT IS NOT A PRESSURE VESSEL ONLY ADD A LITTLE PRESSURE, DON'T LET THE TANK SWELL OR RUPTURE.
Fuel should flow out the disconnected fitting iadd a air line there and into a container you remembered to put there.  If no fuel comes out, you can try back blowing the line to clear it using air or fuel under pressure, then pressure the tank and try again.  Good luck, dress warm, keep it simple....Sounds like no fuel to me, plenty of priming in your future, check the threads re priming etc...
If the line is collapsed it will flow fuel under pressure but will not flow fuel being sucked so that can be confusing.....Keep it simple.
   I would like to add my 2 cents worth also, there was a post a few years back where someone posted a picture of the

 elbow on the top side of the tank with alot of crud on the inside. That might be your problem.  Good luck!


  Steve 5B.......
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robertglines1
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« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2011, 06:06:35 AM »

when you go get filter  get extra set     just in case  IF  you have crud in tank    might take  a couple changes to clean out     and a can of diesel   to prime with....    not time of year to be on side of road.   Bob
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Scott Bennett
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« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2011, 07:51:41 AM »

Engine stop solenoid is working correctly, tripple checked.  solenoid is pushing the lever, lever is rotating shaft that goes into the governer/throttle box.  All is working externally.

But is the lever in the right direction? I'm just being a pain about this, because my air piston pushes the lever to shut off my engine, but the lower piston DOES NOT push the lever back to the "start" position. So every single time I want to start the coach, I have reach into the grimy engine, and pull the lever towards me. Otherwise coach won't start. It took me two days to figure this out  Undecided You're probably fine, but I'm just trying to help....
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Scott & Heather
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http://www.scottmichaelbennett.com/p/our-bus.html
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bevans6
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« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2011, 08:01:22 AM »

Scott, There is a coil spring around the engine stop lever shaft inside the governor housing that is the return spring for the lever, and there is a big spring inside the engine stop air cylinder to make it return.  Air pressure in the cylinder is dumped by the Skinner valve once the engine stop is no longer needed.  One or both springs may be missing in your setup if it's not returning on it's own, or the Skinner valve may not be dumping the air pressure.

Brian

Added a pic for Scott to add to the PM I sent.  Sorry for the minor hijack...   Cheesy
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 09:02:09 AM by bevans6 » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2011, 08:27:49 AM »

The air piston that pushes the lever to the "stop" position does retract. But the lever stays in the "stop" position and I have to pull it into the "start" position. So how easy is it to replace the spring inside the governor housing?...um...off topic...PM me please Brian
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Scott & Heather
1984 MCI9 6V92-turbo with 9 inch roof raise & conversion in progress.
http://www.scottmichaelbennett.com/p/our-bus.html
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Paxton
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« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2011, 08:40:49 AM »

verdict? I ran out of fuel.

Put a couple cans of diesel in my front tank, filled my filters.  a couple cranks and a couple shots of ether, and she runs.

my rear tank is full, but I guess she runs off the front tank.  does anyone have experience with a Newlook with dual tanks?  I dont have a front/rear tank switch and my old manual mentions very little of dual tanks.

I'll have to take a look at all my lines, see if they're pinched or blocked.

Thanks for getting my mind off the oil and aimed toward the fuel.


-Paxton


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opus
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« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2011, 08:59:46 AM »

verdict? I ran out of fuel.


Awesome, I love these fixes!!  Glad it was that simple....albeit pretty cold job this morning doing fuel filters.  15℉ here.
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Scott Bennett
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« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2011, 09:27:46 AM »

Nice! Glad to hear it was easy...strange about the two tanks. Now you have a tank of diesel you can't even use?? bummer. That's money. Better siphon it  Wink And, your thread, solved a long-time issue I've had...so you killed two birds with one thread...thanks :-)
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Scott & Heather
1984 MCI9 6V92-turbo with 9 inch roof raise & conversion in progress.
http://www.scottmichaelbennett.com/p/our-bus.html
˙ǝɯoɔlǝʍ suoıʇɐuop ˙snq ʍǝu ɐ pǝǝu ʎlqɐqoɹd ll,ǝʍ 'sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı
Paxton
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« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2011, 10:24:23 AM »

You are right Opus, it was an easy and inexpensive fix.  I was at home too, so I can't complain... though it was chilly this morning.

Glad you got some good out of this situation too Scott.

its time to get some miles.

Thanks guys.

-Paxton
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« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2011, 01:20:31 PM »

    You may have to get under the old girl and follow the plumbing. You may be able to get both tanks working with only a little bit of creativity. ...Cable
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Sofar Sogood
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« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2011, 08:47:04 PM »

"I turned open the fuel drains in both my filters, ". When you did this you allowed air into the filters, this kept it from starting.

You "then filled both filters". This allowed the engine to start.

The filters would have been full under normal conditions but you had drained them and introduced air instead if fuel.  Any time you drain fuel filters make sure you drain just a few drops, it is easy to overdo it.
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