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Author Topic: heat source for boondocking?  (Read 6110 times)
buswarrior
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« Reply #45 on: November 10, 2011, 07:58:21 PM »

We have to be sure we're measuring oranges with oranges and apples with apples, when we get into these things.

In the comparisons, are there varying amounts of waste heat going outside somewhere in one, and not the other?

Insulation and other equipment in the coach are huge factors. Every appliance computer television etc is a heat source at their rated consumption, so that 500 watt computer power supply contributes some warmth to the interior of the coach. As does the electric refrigerator...(worth remembering when it comes to figuring our air conditioning too!)

Are we comparing feeling warm versus the space being warm?

traditionally, electric may be more expensive, but there's no waste heat going out a chimney, and a draft drawing cold air in the cracks to replace it, like a flame heat source will do.

Radiant/quartz heat can feel good, though the space isn't being well heated.

Are windows being left cracked open to deal with condensation?

And then we get into the ambient environment that the conclusions are being arrived in.

a cool evening at 42 degrees F in the south, or a frigid evening at -20 degrees F in the north?

1500 watts is a frozen spit in the wind at -20, no matter what it is you choose to use, but 1500 watts may keep up very nicely with the thermal inertia at 42. 

Too many variables for folks to get distressed over.

I posted some temp observations with a bunch of electric heaters running in the cold coach, that may help with the thought processes, maybe winter before last?

happy coaching!
buswarrior

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belfert
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« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2011, 06:02:12 AM »

Same is said about btu's but I know for a fact a gas fired Quartz will give you a lot more heat than the same amount of fuel to produce btu's used for a flame my propane bill has dropped by 1/2 with a Quartz,aren't they converting watts to BTU's or something like that,they work but I ? the 1000 sf 

Gas is a whole different story than electricity.  Your gas fired quartz heater is probably more efficient than whatever you were using before.  With electricity heaters are usually 100% efficient at converting energy to heat.  Even the best gas heater is generally no more than 95% efficient and most get less efficient as they age.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2011, 06:15:59 AM »

just to clarify some things based on BW's comments.  I follow the Jack Conrad heat method usually.  When it starts getting too cold to heat well, point the compass south and put the tranny in Drive.
We got to Colorado last spring, with the bus heat working so driving was not an issue.  When we parked, we had 50A, so the 11 deg F was ok with our 4 toe-kicks.
We are here in KY with 50A, so the 9 deg we expeienced last year won't be an issue this year - until we head South right before Christmas.  This year, I suspect we'll have to run the genset and toe kicks until we get south down to Florida, in order to keep the wife warm.
i don't plan on ever being in any negative temp degree areas again.  I would hope that a 40k btu propane furnace would be enough to overcome driving down the road.  i do plan on trying to keep the driver's area heater from the engine and manual turning it on/off to adjust temp.
But there is, as usual, a lot of methods and suggestions, all good, on here.  thanks to all.
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Tom
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« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2011, 06:23:33 AM »

I know that it is time to start thinking about heading south when,...the temps start getting down to 40 degrees, and the geese are flying south. Smiley  I know that i have waited a little too long when i see frost!!! Grin
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« Reply #49 on: November 11, 2011, 06:27:41 AM »

Watts used = results look at the 1800w microwave and induction vs a 1800w hot plate which one is more efficient those heaters do work I still do not believe one would heat a 1000sf but the ones I been around do heat a bus.

They say the heat strips on the roof mounts don't work either but I have had good luck run the fan on low and start with a warm coach they will hold the temperature but if starting with cold air they are useless 


good luck

« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 06:43:42 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #50 on: November 11, 2011, 07:55:00 AM »

Hey Cliff gotta agree with you on the heat strips. my bus is kinda drafty and 1 heat strip will hold temps comfortable down to about 45, two will hold it down to about 30. any colder than that and I shouldn't even be there. Only time I have ever had all three going is when we come into a cold bus and it's freezing outside. All three will bring the temps up eventually, but the gas does it a lot quicker.
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Jerry32
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« Reply #51 on: November 11, 2011, 05:22:56 PM »

I have two Espar type hot air heaters that use very little power and put out 12000 BTU Ea on diesel Jwrry
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« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2011, 08:02:00 PM »

i don't know what an espar is.  send me a email at whtbus91 at gmail dot com.  i might be interested.  i need at least one of some kind of heater.
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Tom
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Fran was called to a higher duty 12/16/13. I lost my life navigator.
buswarrior
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« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2011, 08:40:36 PM »

An air heater for a truck bunk is the device in question.

Espar makes them, as does Webasto. And others...

http://www.espar.com/html/products/airheaters.html

http://www.webasto.com/products-and-markets/truck/en/html/7938.html

You need a conversion program for any of the European spec sheets. I use a little converter program called versaverter for these tasks:  http://www.pawprint.net/vv/

With their various BTU ratings, the air heaters can be part of an efficient, layered, approach to heating a coach conversion.

For instance, a Dickinson stove and two of the bigger bunk heaters would make a fine arsenal against the cold in many bus conversions.

Run one, two, or three of them in various combinations, as conditions of temperature, fuel and electric consumption dictate?

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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PP
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« Reply #54 on: November 20, 2011, 01:36:20 PM »

We've been experiencing 20*F weather with it barely hitting 32*F during the day, and I refilled my propane tank yesterday. With 3 LP Catilytic heaters (only 2 being used daily) and one 30" baseboard in the bedroom, it took 6.7 US gals of propane after exactly 3 weeks to the day since the last fill. That's 'six-point-seven'. The 2 cats seem to keep the bus at 75*F on low during the day. We only leave one on low at night in the kitchen along with the baseboard in the BR. In the morning, the temp will be around 60*F so we kick on all three for about an hour to bring everything back up to speed. The bus is well insulated top and bottom, but the windows are stock single pane, including 2 skylights. If you put your face near them, you can feel the cold through them. To say we're pleased with the catilytic heaters would be an understatement. I haven't heard of a quieter or more efficient way to heat a bus yet, unless of course you're moving down the road and using the otr heat.
FWIW-we keep 3 vents open all the time for circulation and don't have any moisture or condensation problems. Of course, the outside air is really dry here, even with the snow on the ground.
Will
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bobofthenorth
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« Reply #55 on: November 20, 2011, 01:43:52 PM »

Tom the problem with a forced air heater - doesn't matter whether it is an Espar, Webasto or Brand X - is that you will need some way to put the heat where you need it, typically with ducting.  That's gonna be a major PITA to install c/w running some Pex for a hydronic system.  If you're starting from scratch then you could put the ducting in along with the walls and the benefit would be dryer heat but if you're talking about retrofitting an existing conversion then it seems to me that hydronic is the only way to go.
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R.J.(Bob) Evans
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« Reply #56 on: November 20, 2011, 03:45:29 PM »

  All the Buses ive seen, GMC, Flxible, MCI, the OTR heat/AC, they push the air into a box running along the bottom of the walls, where its forced through the wall panels to exit along venting at the bottom of the glass.

  I removed all of the original ducting and inner wall panels out of my MC5B. My plan is to build have thicker, better insulated outer walls, and run a heat run the length of the bus made of wood, down both sides, simular to what existed originally, but with controllable heat outlet vents along the floor where it makes the most sense. Half the side glass will be non existent, and the other half can be heavily shaded/covered, so heat loss can be greatly reduced.

 
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TedsBUSted
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« Reply #57 on: November 20, 2011, 05:06:52 PM »

PP - When all the heaters are cranked on, you're not getting any of those old-time ventless sensations?
Gently burning eyes, sort of a light stuffy sensation, and whatnot?
 
Ted
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 05:08:53 PM by TedsBUSted » Logged

Bus polygamist. Always room for another, especially 04 or 06 are welcome. NE from Chicago, across the pond.
PP
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« Reply #58 on: November 20, 2011, 06:45:05 PM »

PP - When all the heaters are cranked on, you're not getting any of those old-time ventless sensations?
Gently burning eyes, sort of a light stuffy sensation, and whatnot?
 
Ted
Ted, I'm happy to report that we haven't felt any side effects from the heaters except for a nice warm feeling. I spend my days outside, usually up in the mountains near here, but the wife is home most days couped up inside. She is extremely sensitive to any kind of fumes, especially diesel exhaust. If there was a problem with the cat heaters, she would have let me know or I would have seen a reaction in her. I honestly believe the key is in the venting. They recommend something like 4 sq in per unit, we have at least 20 sq in per, excluding the bathroom unit. That only has 16 sq in the lid. (mushroom vent). But the bathroom unit is rarely used because you have to leave the door shut when it's on. We've had a lot of RVs in our life together, and excluding the wood stove in our skoolie, we've never been happy with anything else. Everything that blows air is either noisey or creates drafts or just plain sucks up fuel, whether elect or gas. That's just our opinion. It's based on real life experiences and we're sticking to it Grin
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TedsBUSted
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« Reply #59 on: November 21, 2011, 05:56:42 AM »

pp - Do you mind sharing the heaters' make/model?

Thanks,

Ted
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