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Author Topic: Help -- ruptured power steering pipe in Mobile, AL  (Read 6841 times)
Sean
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« on: November 08, 2011, 07:13:36 PM »

Looks like the latest fallout from having to pull and replace the engine back in July to fix a leaky gasket is my power steering system.

As careful as Joel was to get the routing of all the lines, fittings, and pipes correct during the re-installation, it looks as if the hard power steering pipe that runs to the front of the coach ended up sitting against an engine mount.  After 4000 miles of vibration, it's rubbed through, and my steering gave out just as we were getting parked here in Mobile.  Wow, what a chore it was getting squared away with no power assist.  And, of course, I've left a few gallons of ATF all over the ground here.

I was hoping to find simply a ruptured hose, which I would run down to the local hose shop to replace.  Unfortunately, it looks to be a hard pipe, and I have no idea how to repair this in place.  Replacing the whole pipe is out of the question.

This first photo shows the 90-degree sweep bend, resting against an engine mount.  I think it's rubbed through where they are touching.  Just above the bend is a slit length of silicone hose tie-wrapped around the pipe as a chafe guard -- perhaps it belonged down lower instead.



In this second photo, at the very top right, you can see the threaded coupler where the pipe joins a compression hydraulic fitting.  Again, I have no idea how the coupler is attached.  Perhaps it is compression, or perhaps it is brazed on.



So here are my questions:

1. Does anyone recognize the coupler?  How is it affixed to the hard pipe?  Can I cut the pipe back past the break and install a new coupler, getting a longer hose to reach the pump?

2. What other options do I have for repairing the ruptured pipe?  It is a high-pressure hydraulic line, so many traditional patching techniques are out.

3.  Does anyone know of someone here in Mobile that can repair this?  I can probably limp in to a shop if it's not too far.

As always, all suggestions and recommendations are welcome.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
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bobofthenorth
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« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2011, 07:39:00 PM »

Is there room in there somewhere to thread that pipe in place?  If so you could put a pipe coupling on it and then go to hose.
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« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2011, 07:49:48 PM »

It's hard to tell from the pics, but it looks like it is a thin wall pipe with a flared fitting on it.
I don't think you will be able to thread it. If it is a flared pipe and fitting, you should be able to cut it back and get a new piece and flare the ends. You might take it apart at the fitting and see what it is.

I'm just taking a stab at this from the pics.
Good luck
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Sean
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« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2011, 08:27:34 PM »

Bob, Gary is right -- it's thin wall; not enough meat there to cut threads for a high-pressure application.

Gary -- if I cut the end off the pipe, how would I join a new flared section?  Is there a tool or mandrel to flare the cut end?

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
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« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2011, 08:32:41 PM »

    Sean, The last time I lost a hyd. line on the road. I found a forklift repair company who would send a service truck to me. I figured forklifts use hydraulics and break down in the field and some of their lines and hoses are worse to get to than ours. He had most of the materials on his truck, and knew where all the local hyd. shops were for the rest. A little expensive, but I wasn't going any where with out the repair. And it was cheaper than burning up a pump...Cable
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« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2011, 09:34:50 PM »

Bob, Gary is right -- it's thin wall; not enough meat there to cut threads for a high-pressure application.

Gary -- if I cut the end off the pipe, how would I join a new flared section?  Is there a tool or mandrel to flare the cut end?

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com



After you cut the end, you would slip the flare nut over the cut end and use a double flare tool to flare it. The tool I have, you would need enough room to be able to hit it with a hammer. Then you would just use a flare coupling to join the two together. Another way you could fix it, is to use the flare nut on the cut end, and use a flare to MIP adapter. Then from the male end you could have Napa make you a short piece of hydraulic line to go to the pump.
WeatherHead and also Boman make all kinds of fittings to do this. You could even use a male end that you would braze on the cut end. If you don't have the tools with you to do the job right and you need to get on the road, you could just use a compression coupling. (not my favorite)

Good luck
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Gary Seay (location Alaska)
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« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2011, 10:33:39 PM »

  A trick my Dad told me they used in WW2 to repair broken hydraulic lines on aircraft in the field. Cut the line off square, clean it well, and wrap the end with heavy wire going back twice the diameter. Solder it to the pipe. Then slip your hydraulic hose over the pipe and use 2 HD hose clamps to secure. Not as pretty as an aeroquip or flare/compression fitting, but simple and it will work and it will get you home where you can make a more proper fix.
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RJ
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« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2011, 10:41:38 PM »

. . . and it will get you home where you can make a more proper fix.

Paul -

Sean's Neoplan IS their home - they fulltime.

But a good tip - imagineering at it's best!

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2011, 10:53:21 PM »

  Hey, next week we can discuss piston hole welding, in situ. lol

  Lots of ways to fix things that dont always have to be the way the factory did them.

  Another way might be that you could cut the line farther forward at a place easier to access. That you may be able to slip the bad section out, repair it properly, fix the chaffing problem, and sweat solder the two ends back together using a coupling at the cut point.
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« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2011, 04:02:03 AM »

What is the pipe made of? If it is copper like a lot of mine on the MCI, you can repair the pipe with Silflos; stronger than copper, requires no flux, available at any HVAC supply house. You need acetylene to heat it hot enough though.

TOM
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« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2011, 04:22:35 AM »

Sean, it looks to me like an adapter at the top going into the pump.  The adapter threads on the top don't look like pipe threads, but it does not matter.  The bottom of the adapter is, as someone pointed out, a flare fitting.  

If it were me, I would take the adapter into a good hose shop and have them make a hose to fit to the adapter on one end and make the other end coupling mate to the existing hose fitting (probably need an adapter).

I would take the adapter and pipe to a good industrial hydraulic hose distributor (one that is associated with either Parker or Aeroquip) and they should be able to make the hose with no problem.  A good hose shop will quickly identify which flare (SAE or JIC) you have.

The issue you will have is getting the hose to bend slightly to clear the engine mount.  You may want to look a getting a second adapter to  make the hose clear the mount.

Lastly, you will want to make a new sleeve out of a piece of steel braid hose to slip over the new hose to protect it.

If possible take the hose from your bus with you.  That way, they can match the pressure rating.  Likely you will not be able to do that.  In lieu of taking the hose with you, I would have them make the new hose with a hose rated for 2000 PSI to be on the safe side.  The best hose for your application is probably Aeroquip AQP which has a stainless steel braid on the outside.

If this is not clear, give me a call:  three zero three four seven eight thirty five zero one.

Jim
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 05:33:06 AM by rv_safetyman » Logged

Jim Shepherd
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« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2011, 05:20:57 AM »

I am told that you can get high pressure compression fittings made of steel rather than brass.  I would look at cutting the hard line back beyond the bend with the damage, put a high pressure compression fitting on and then run up to the pump with flexible line.  As noted, a fork lift mobile repair could probably do it for you, a call to a hydraulic store would give you better information.  Does the end fitting on the hard line connect to a flex line now?  Taking that to the hydraulic store would like them know what fittings you need.
Brian
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 05:23:05 AM by bevans6 » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2011, 05:26:52 AM »

Sean,they are hard to find and I don't know anyone in that area but if you could give me the O.D of the pipe I may have a Morris coupling that is the easy way to repair those slap it over the hole and tighten the 3 bolts and it will last

good luck
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robertglines1
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« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2011, 05:47:33 AM »

Do they make Dresser fittings for Metric tube- or is it?   Would be about 3 1/2 inches long.
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« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2011, 06:40:13 AM »

If that hose is on the pressure side of the pump-it should be replaced with a hydraulic hose of at least 3,000psi working pressure. Many steering systems (I know mine does) uses a 2,500psi pump.  Good Luck Sean, TomC
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