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Author Topic: Help -- ruptured power steering pipe in Mobile, AL  (Read 6880 times)
robertglines1
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« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2011, 03:15:02 PM »

A return line to a no pressurized reservoir  burst with a bang?
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« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2011, 03:23:51 PM »

They return over 2 gpm depending on the pump @ 20lbs


good luck
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bevans6
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« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2011, 03:27:22 PM »

I've been working on the assumption this was the pressure line.  the return line is basically open to atmosphere, it just dumps in the reservoir.

Brian
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« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2011, 03:37:01 PM »

 20 lbs. sounds a lot more doable than 2000. Can you bypass from res. to steering area via accessible detour?...Cable
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Sofar Sogood
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« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2011, 03:48:21 PM »

Sean, can you give us more information on how the one company wants to fix the leak?  Might trigger some thoughts on our part.

If you have an area where you could get to the pipe, you might think about having a thick 4 bolt flange made with the bore that would fit snug over the tubing.  You could then have someone solder/braze/weld the flange to the tube (after you have cut off the bend - working on a straight part of the tube).  The mating flange could have a coupling welded to that flange that would receive a hose.

If that would work, and you choose silver solder, you would probably want some clearance between the flange and tube so that the solder would flow.

Along the same lines, you might be lucky to find some steel tubing that will slip over the metric tubing and then buy/fabricate a two piece clamp that uses bolts (wide four bolt would be the best) to draw the two halves together.

If enough folks brainstorm this problem I bet we can find an answer.

Jim
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« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2011, 04:15:41 PM »

If it really is a return line then Gorilla tape would get you to a repair shop.  You really need to sort that out because you have a whole lot more options to fix it if its a return.
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Sean
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« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2011, 04:49:01 PM »

Again, I am going to say this is a high-pressure part of the system.  Evidence:

1.  All the components are high-pressure lines.
2.  Loud noise when it went.
3.  Pumped all the fluid out in less than a minute.

I'm trying to pull down the information on my pump and reservoir now.  The pump is a Vickers VTM42 with three ports.  The reservoir is a large external affair.  There are two lines going from the pump to the reservoir, one line from the pump forward, and one line from the front back to the reservoir.  I believe this last line to be the one that ruptured, but maybe I did not do a good job of tracing it.

More when I can figure out the hose routing.

Jim, I have no idea what the shop might do, and I'm not sure they do, either.  They need to see it in person first.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
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luvrbus
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« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2011, 05:30:03 PM »

We need more numbers than VTM42 there are about 20 different models of the VTM42 you may have the controlled flow model no way of knowing without the other numbers on the pump

good luck
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« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2011, 05:58:48 PM »

  Just because it went bang doesnt mean its a pressure line. The bang may have been something in the system that shuddered when the system lost flow. Or it may have been coincidence. So its possible it was already dumping fluid or was already about out when you heard the bang. In any case, if the line goes into the reservoir, and you for sure see a line coming out of the pump, the other line must be a return line.

  I have never heard of a steering system that operated continuously at 1000 psi plus. I think Cliffords 20psi for neutral pressure is more the norm, but obviously without more knowledge we just dont know.

  To bypass it you only need uncouple fittings near the pump and get a line in that goes from pressure output to reservoir input, gerry rigged, custom hose from NAPA, whatever. I'm sure it steers hard, but any fore or aft movement should help you considerably, some old fashioned see sawing.

  Your correct that a hose would want to slip off a straight pipe under high pressure. However, if the pipe is rough, if the hose fits well, if the clamps are heavy duty, if there are enough of them, and if they are reefed down tight enough, it will hold. That was the idea behind wire wrapping the line and soldering the wire to it, to provide a rough surface the hose would hold onto.

 

 
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Sean
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« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2011, 09:37:02 PM »

We need more numbers than VTM42 there are about 20 different models of the VTM42 you may have the controlled flow model no way of knowing without the other numbers on the pump


As long as you asked, it's a VTM42 40 55 15 ME R1 16, which my book says is a delivery of 4gpm on flow of 5.5gpm with 1500 psi pressure, right-hand rotation with threaded fitting.

Oddly, the ME designation is a cast manifold with no bypass, but the plug has been removed and bypass rigged anyway, which is that extra line to the tank.  I'm guessing the one I had on there was an MF and when Raz replaced it MCI sent them an ME -- I take it MCI does not use the bypass port -- and it looks like the manifold casting is the same on both models:
http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com/2008/01/our-moose-is-gone.html
(Long-time members here may remember my original pump blew its seal and dumped gallons of ATF into my oil sump.)

Just because it went bang doesnt mean its a pressure line. The bang may have been something in the system that shuddered when the system lost flow. Or it may have been coincidence. So its possible it was already dumping fluid or was already about out when you heard the bang. In any case, if the line goes into the reservoir, and you for sure see a line coming out of the pump, the other line must be a return line. ...

Well, that's some reassurance.

I have gone back to my records and photos of the pump and reservoir installation, including the originals of the photos linked in the blog post above.  The cut-through is definitely in the line returning from the front of the coach to the reservoir; the pressure port from the pump goes to a different braided hose of smaller diameter.  So I am now working on the theory that this is the return line and therefore a lower working pressure, which gives me some confidence that the patch I will rig in the morning will hold.

Now I am hoping that the loud bang was not some other part of the system failing, such as the pump.

So can someone tell me definitively what the maximum pressure would be on the return side of the system?  Is it possible that I can repair this with a simple 22mm compression fitting (assuming I can even find one in that size?)

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
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eagle19952
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« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2011, 10:26:49 PM »

Pages 89-95

http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products/pdfs/353.pdf



http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products/pdfs/m2052s.pdf
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 10:43:55 PM by eagle19952 » Logged

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« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2011, 03:38:49 AM »

   Sean, from what I'm seeing and reading you have a positive displacement pump. It pushes fluid through the pressure line to the steering assy. Then through the return line to the res. The only pressure on the return line is the pressure required to overcome the head pressure and push the fluid up into the res.
   I would think, After cleaning with a little Brake Clean. You could maybe use some Permatex or JB Weld in the crack (not enough to get into the line. We don't want that stuff passing through the pump.) Then some Gorilla Tape (as suggested) to hold it in place. I might even put a piece of inner tube or garden hose over it to give the motor mount something else to rub on, and hold it there with a suitable hose clamp. If that holds you can hit the road or go to the hyd. shop...Good luck...Cable
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« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2011, 04:41:43 AM »

Sean, that pump is a constant flow the tape won't get it 100 psi on the return it has no bypass but the coupling should work for you,try a commercial refrigeration for a emergency repair coupling.

Check with a Cat dealer they use a lot of metric tubing and cut rings on their equipment also,drawback to cut rings they seem to not hold good on old tubing


good luck
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 07:33:52 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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Sean
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« Reply #43 on: November 10, 2011, 08:04:43 AM »

Sean, that pump is a constant flow the tape won't get it 100 psi on the return it has no bypass ...

Well, mine has a line rigged to the bypass port, which had a pipe plug in it when the pump came from MCI.  Here's a photo of the actual pump installation:



This shot gives more of an overview and shows the coupler on the hard pipe that ruptured:



Near as I can see, there is no damage to the supply line.  I'm going to try to clamp a hose section over the rupture after it warms up a bit here, and we'll see how it goes.  I might also try to get the coupling apart to see if it is a flare, cutting ring, or simple compression type.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
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« Reply #44 on: November 10, 2011, 08:37:29 AM »

run a self tapping screw into the hole and encase it in some jb weld

Thats what I am thinking, or quick dry epoxy if you can get it clean enough.
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