Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
August 20, 2014, 07:32:51 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you had an E-Mag Subscription: It will not be stolen by your mailman or your neighbor who also may be into buses.
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: infared heat??  (Read 4478 times)
GMC5303Wonder
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 39


fishbowl




Ignore
« on: November 14, 2011, 06:30:56 PM »

Curiosity question.......I don't even knoe if it'd work

Has anyone tried to use infared heat for a bus? Something like the comfortzone 1500 type of unit?  Energy costs are supposed to be extremely low and one is rated to heat 1000sq ft of space........so 2u should easily heat my bus..any ideas/concerns/opinions?
Logged

Big Noah
1965 GMC 5303
6v71 4spd spicer
Nw Iowa......for now!!!
Scott Bennett
Scott & Heather MCI-9
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1263


Scott & Heather


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2011, 06:41:36 PM »

I am not (I repeat "NOT") one of the guys who happily shoots down every creative idea suggested...but in this one instance, I have to say I've personally done so much research on these types of heaters...and I know a couple of individuals who have them, and they are truly mostly glorified space heaters. Different approaches, maybe some good, maybe not, but they do do not actually provide more heat/btu's than any other 1500 watt electrical heater. That being said, we super insulated our coach when we built it. This includes 1.5 inch foam, and two layers of Reflectix in addition to the wood/plywood. We have so far used only a single 1500 watt space heater to keep our coach comfortable down into the upper 30's...true story. Consumer Reports has tested several models of the Edenpure heaters, infrared heaters, etc. Here's the most recent article (subscription required to pull it up):

Moderator Edit - Although very good information, the removed content was a copyrighted work posted in its entirety which was a violation of the Consumer Reports terms of use, resulting in a copyright complaint.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 08:22:53 AM by HighTechRedneck » Logged

Scott & Heather
1984 MCI9 6V92-turbo with 9 inch roof raise & conversion in progress.
http://www.scottmichaelbennett.com/p/our-bus.html
˙ǝɯoɔlǝʍ suoıʇɐuop ˙snq ʍǝu ɐ pǝǝu ʎlqɐqoɹd ll,ǝʍ 'sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı
GMC5303Wonder
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 39


fishbowl




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2011, 07:05:32 PM »

Scott,
Thank you for the info..........
the reason I bring it up is I was given two of these heaters by my father who simply doesn't need them.... so I figured it'd be worth a try... but maybe not??

Thank you

Noah and family
Logged

Big Noah
1965 GMC 5303
6v71 4spd spicer
Nw Iowa......for now!!!
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 12215




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2011, 07:37:10 PM »

Can't beat the price Noah what do you have to lose lol it would be a no brainier for me

good luck
Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
GMC5303Wonder
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 39


fishbowl




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2011, 02:06:26 AM »

Hahaha faiir enough...... thankks clifford
Logged

Big Noah
1965 GMC 5303
6v71 4spd spicer
Nw Iowa......for now!!!
scanzel
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 514





Ignore
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2011, 03:14:14 AM »

One thing also to remember is that 1500 watts is still 1500 watts no matter what you try to do with it. It will still only produce a certain amount of heat no matter what the claim is. Just another mfg consumer rip off, especially at that price. Bob Vila should be hung for supporting a rip off like that. They must of used the other $400 of the $472 to pay him off to support it's claims.
Logged

Steve Canzellarini
Berlin, CT
1989 Prevost XL
Scott Bennett
Scott & Heather MCI-9
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1263


Scott & Heather


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2011, 05:53:02 AM »

Scott, Thank you for the info.......... the reason I bring it up is I was given two of these heaters by my father who simply doesn't need them.... so I figured it'd be worth a try... but maybe not?? Thank you Noah and family


Well in that case, you were given a couple of 1500 watt heaters. I'd use them in a heartbeat  Smiley I just couldn't justify paying $400 for each of them. We actually use this space heater in our coach. Also 1500 watts, takes up very little space. And it works. Still amazes me:

Logged

Scott & Heather
1984 MCI9 6V92-turbo with 9 inch roof raise & conversion in progress.
http://www.scottmichaelbennett.com/p/our-bus.html
˙ǝɯoɔlǝʍ suoıʇɐuop ˙snq ʍǝu ɐ pǝǝu ʎlqɐqoɹd ll,ǝʍ 'sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı
Jerry32
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 726





Ignore
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2011, 06:05:51 AM »

Total ripoffs overpriced BS
Logged

1988 MCI 102A3 8V92TA 740
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6718





Ignore
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2011, 07:40:11 AM »

Scott-does your bus still not have any windows cut out?  That's why you're able to keep your bus warm easily.  When you do cut windows, even using double pane windows will let in a lot of cold and heat.  You can see by my picture of my bus both my wife and I REALLY like the big huge windows.  After all-aren't we travelling to see things?  Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Scott Bennett
Scott & Heather MCI-9
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1263


Scott & Heather


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2011, 08:22:17 AM »

Scott-does your bus still not have any windows cut out?  That's why you're able to keep your bus warm easily.  When you do cut windows, even using double pane windows will let in a lot of cold and heat.  You can see by my picture of my bus both my wife and I REALLY like the big huge windows.  After all-aren't we travelling to see things?  Good Luck, TomC

No doubt...and we're wanting windows...trust me. But when we're driving down the road, the windshield and drivers/passenger windows are amazingly panoramic. When we do cut our windows in (double pane as you said) I'll be sure to report the heating/cooling efforts needed at that time. Right now, our front cap isn't even paneled or insulated, neither is our front door (interior skin removed too) and we don't have a heavy curtain to block windshield heat/cooling effects, and we were previously (in Pennsylvania) using a single 1500 watt heater to keep warm down to 30 degree temps (we're in Florida now, so no contest) and a single 13,500 BTU a/c unit to cool the coach in 90 degree temps. Right now, outside (ambient) temp is 84 degrees. We have two thermometers in the coach front and back). I just timed it. To cool the temp from 78 degrees down to 68 degrees in the entire coach (both thermometers reading 68 or below) it takes 25 minutes. No ducting...just one unit at the front of the coach. Works for us.
Logged

Scott & Heather
1984 MCI9 6V92-turbo with 9 inch roof raise & conversion in progress.
http://www.scottmichaelbennett.com/p/our-bus.html
˙ǝɯoɔlǝʍ suoıʇɐuop ˙snq ʍǝu ɐ pǝǝu ʎlqɐqoɹd ll,ǝʍ 'sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı
Sean
Geek.
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2546


'85 Neoplan Spaceliner "Odyssey"


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2011, 09:11:23 AM »

OK, I'm going to jump in here to clear up some misconceptions, on the part of advertisers and perhaps some folks here following along.

All electric space heaters are 100% efficient, it does not matter whether they are "infrared," "oil filled," "disc furnace," or "mil-spec laser guided."  Any claims that one produces more heat than another are simply marketing hype, or outright lies.  1500 watts is 1500 watts is 1500 watts -- and watts is a measure of heat as well as electricity in SI units.  In more common parlance, 1500 watts is 5120 BTU/hr (aka "BTU rating").

That being said, there are subjective differences between heaters, and this has to do with where the heat gets directed.  So while in a pure sense, each produces the same heat, and a scientist measuring the incremental heat of the container (room) would see exactly the same change no matter which model, a human sitting in the room will experience each type of heater differently.

The "infrared" style of heater projects the heat in a relatively narrow cone in front of the unit.  It will warm up whatever is in that cone at the expense of everything else in the room.  So if what you want is to be warm while sitting in your easy chair reading a book, and you don't care about the temperature in the rest of the room, this type will be more effective for you.  If, OTOH, what you want is to provide an even temperature increase throughout the space, then a type with a circulating fan is probably more effective.

Note also that, while any energy used to spin a fan does eventually become heat, moving warmer interior air around can have the effect of sending more of your precious interior heat right out of the coach, as warm air is moved past poorly insulated surfaces such as windows.

These are the sorts of factors you need to take into account when choosing electric space heaters for your coach, rather than anyone's marketing hype suggesting that one style is "better" than another.

While I am at it, I should probably also point out that you are unlikely to get 1500 watts (or 5120 BTU/h) out of any of these heaters, because they are rated at 125 volts, and your power supply is probably 120 volts or less.  A "1500-watt" heater will provide only 1382 watts (4716 BTU/h) at 120 volts, and just 1162 watts (3965 BTU/h) at 110 volts.

Any why are heaters generally rated at 1500 watts?  Because that's the largest heater that can be run continuously on a dedicated 15-amp circuit.  Household circuit breakers, including the ones in your coach, are designed to carry their "handle rating" only for short periods of time.  If you drew 15 amps continuously from a 15-amp breaker, it would eventually trip.  Instead, breakers are designed to carry just 80% of their handle rating continuously.  Above that, they are supposed to trip over time; the further above the 80% threshold, the sooner they will trip.  Above the handle rating, they are supposed to trip "immediately," although a small time delay is permitted for breakers designed to support Heating, Air Conditioning, and Refrigeration equipment, thus designated type HACR.

So that means a 15-amp circuit can continuously support only 12 amps.  The heater maker must allow for house voltage of 125 volts, which is the published standard for such things (if you look at the ratings on your receptacles you will see they are rated at 125 volts).  12 amps at 125 volts is 1500 watts, and so that's the largest heater you can make without assuming a larger dedicated electrical circuit.

And now, as Paul Harvey used to say, you know the rest of the story.

One final note:  It is, indeed, possible to get more than 1500 watts of heat from 1500 watts of electricity, but not with a portable self-contained space heater.  The device which can do this is a reverse-cycle air conditioner, also known as a heat pump.  That's because it's not turning electricity directly into heat, but, rather, it is using the electricity to move the heat from one place to another, namely, from outside the coach to inside.  They are very efficient, but only down to outside temperatures in the low 40s; below that, it is difficult for a system based on conventional refrigerant to extract enough heat from the outside environment.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Logged

Full-timing in a 1985 Neoplan Spaceliner since 2004.
Our blog: http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Seayfam
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 453





Ignore
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2011, 10:34:46 AM »

Thanks Sean,
That pretty much explains every aspect of that. Good info  Wink
Logged

Gary Seay (location Alaska)
1969 MCI MC-6 unit# 20006
8V92 turbo 740 auto
more pics and information here     "  www.my69mci-6.blogspot.com  "
gus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3499





Ignore
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2011, 05:28:25 PM »

My understanding is that these heaters consume 1500 watts, that they don't necessarily produce that much heat, especially if they have fans, but may.

Infra-red heat is like a flashlight beam, it only heats what it shines on. A simplification of what has already been posted.

They are great in large areas like shops when one is working in one spot for a while, that way the heat is not wasted.

The Eden things are ripoffs, they make claims that are scientifically impossible and the price is outrageous. Bob Villa has forever lost his credibility.
Logged

PD4107-152
PD4104-1274
Ash Flat, AR
Dave5Cs
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508


1979 MCI MC5Cs 6V-71 HT-740 Allison, Roseville, CA




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2011, 08:12:09 PM »

We got 2 cube heaters from an estate sale we went to for 6 bucks for the 2. They both work great. We use 1 and at 28 degrees on the river it heats very nicely and we have a back up too. We have a Atwood but haven't used it because it needs a new board but just haven't had time to get one. it eats gas at 35,000 BTU's. So we stick with the electric. We have all our windows still tinted some dual but mostly original slides and 3 inches of insulating foam with 3/8 ply over it, curtains with UV protection. Thick drapes in the front.  FWIW

Dave
Logged

Sean
Geek.
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2546


'85 Neoplan Spaceliner "Odyssey"


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2011, 10:46:20 PM »

My understanding is that these heaters consume 1500 watts, that they don't necessarily produce that much heat, especially if they have fans, but may. ...

Actually, every watt consumed by an electric space heater in an enclosed space becomes heat; it is impossible for it to be otherwise.  It is know as the First Law of Thermodynamics.

For that matter, every watt consumed by a light bulb, electric stove top, or toy train set also becomes heat.  In general, in fact, all the electric power going into your coach will become heat inside the coach with three exceptions.  One is any motor-driven system that acts outside the coach, for example an air conditioner.  To be sure, that energy ultimately becomes heat, too, but it is exhausted outside the coach.  Another is any resistive load exhausted or directed outside the coach.  Examples include a light which shines out through a window, or the electric element in an absorption fridge.  And the third would be an energy storage system, such as a battery bank (where the power will likely still be expended as heat, but at a later time).

So let me reiterate: ALL electric space heaters are 100% efficient.  It does not matter whether or not they have fans, or whether they are the infrared type or some other type.  The only difference among them is how the heat is directed or dispersed.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Logged

Full-timing in a 1985 Neoplan Spaceliner since 2004.
Our blog: http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!