Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
December 21, 2014, 08:51:11 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you had an Online Subscription: It will not be stolen by your mailman or your neighbor who also may be into buses.
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Tires with Nitrogen  (Read 3564 times)
Bill 340
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 178



WWW

Ignore
« on: December 21, 2011, 11:48:07 AM »

well I know this will cause controversy but its what I DID and these are my results... This week I had a young man come to my home with a van equipped with a Complete nitrogen system he pumped the air from my VAN tires, he then replaced it with nitrogen, Well the next day I had to travel I-4 to clearwater fl, and back of course, the van never rode so quiet, I was on black top, concrete and plain rough road, very quiet compared to past road noise, Next day to Orlando and back again less road noise, now they tell you that it helps increase fuel mileage, Maybe it does maybe not didn't check that yet, Very satisfied with what I have found. SO I called him today and convinced him to come to the Arcadia rally, he only has one day he can make it, and that is Dec 30, so if anyone wants to make sure he will have time to do their unit, I am sure he would appreciate a heads up, so he can judge his time, thanks and we will see you in Arcadia, His name and number is Nitro Tire--Chad Smith- 863 412-0177
Logged

Bill & Brenda Phelan
Lakeland florida..........Host of the ARCADIA RALLY
lostagain
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1622


MC5C




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2011, 11:55:40 AM »

Why would nitrogen filled tires be any quieter than air filled tires?

So now when a tire is low, you need to be looking for nitrogen. So much easier, and cheaper to stick with regular old air.

JC
Logged

JC
Invermere, BC
1977 MC5C, 6V92/HT740
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13131




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2011, 12:02:28 PM »

JC it does help the smaller tires I tried on the 12rx22.5 on the bus I could not tell any difference except I had to pay till I got my own bottle to top the tires off I still use it on the car,Cosco does that at a good price real popular here in the desert in the heat the tire pressure won't vary   

good luck
Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
lostagain
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1622


MC5C




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2011, 12:10:47 PM »

Yea, but what is in nitrogen that isn't in air that would make a tire run quieter? The only thing I understand is that nitrogen doesn't leak out as much as air, so the pressure stays more constant.

JC
Logged

JC
Invermere, BC
1977 MC5C, 6V92/HT740
Oonrahnjay
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 1640





Ignore
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2011, 12:19:08 PM »

  Yea, but what is in nitrogen that isn't in air that would make a tire run quieter? The only thing I understand is that nitrogen doesn't leak out as much as air, so the pressure stays more constant.  JC   

     Yeah, JC - you just don't understand.  I've been breathing 79% nitrogen for years.  The guy that sold me the compressor and mask told me that I'd be a lot healthier.  And he's right.  I've been healthy!  When people are selling you stuff, that makes them experts and you should listen to experts!
Logged

Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
1976 Daimler (British) Double-Decker Bus; 34' long
6-cyl, 4-stroke, Leyland O-680 engine

(New Email -- brucebearnc@ (theGoogle gmail place) .com)
Iceni John
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 832




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2011, 01:24:56 PM »

Nitrogen is to tires what Oxygen Bars are to hip impressionable folk who love anything new.

Seriously though (!), is it the lack of moisture, or the lack of oxygen, or what, that makes any claimed difference?   Costco put nitrogen in my car's new tires, but I can't say what difference there is to regular air because they are new tires, with different handling/ride/noise/etc than my old worn-out tires.   Is there any scientific testing to validate the claims, or is it just subjective feelings and hearsay?   Until I see hard irrefutable proof one way or another, it's just so much hot air to me (so to speak).

Besides, as Bruce says, even air-filled tires are 79% nitrogen anyway.

John
Logged

1990 Crown 2R-40N-552:  6V92TAC, DDEC II, HT740, Jake.      Hecho en Chino.     
Behind the Orange Curtain, SoCal.
Depewtee
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 214





Ignore
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2011, 01:39:33 PM »

The United States National Highway and Traffic Administration released a report in March of 2009 on this subject (see attachment Oops!  File size is too large, link to the .pdf here).  In brief, using nitrogen allows the tire to maintain a more steady air pressure, thus theoretically providing increased fuel mileage and less tire wear.  Additionally, the lack of moisture in nitrogen may result in less tire and wheel degradation. No mention of ride quality.

Brian S.
Logged

Brian Shonk
Fort Walton Beach, FL (Florida Panhandle)
1981 Prevost LeMirage Liberty Coach
1984 TMC MC-9
JackConrad
Orange Blossom Special II
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4447


73' MC-8 8V71/HT740 Southwest Florida


WWW
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2011, 03:12:57 PM »

Nitrogen molecules are larger than oxgen molocules and less suceptable to leakage. NASCAR has used nitrogen for years (not sure how many).  I think the biggest difference is the moisture content of typical "gas station" compressed air and (dry) 100% nitrogen. If there is moisture in the air, as the tire heats up, it expands more than 100%  nitrogen. As it expands, it increases the tire pressure.  Watching the PressurePro on our rig, with regular compressed air from my shop compressor, I see about a 5-10 PSI increase in the bus tires and about 3-5 PSI in the toad tires. This is from an ambient starting temp of 50-60 to a running temp of about 120-130.  Jack
Logged

Growing Older Is Mandatory, Growing Up Is Optional
Arcadia, Florida, When we are home
http://s682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/OBS-JC/
johns4104
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 154





Ignore
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2011, 04:28:55 PM »

Is nitrogen the only gas that does not expand with heat?
Logged

PD4104-1859
In Sunny Arizona
Apache Junction Near Phoenix
bobofthenorth
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2107



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2011, 04:49:54 PM »

Is nitrogen the only gas that does not expand with heat?

Every gas expands with heat.

This whole nitrogen in tires thing consumes a lot of internet bandwidth and I'm not going to get into it but every gas expands with heat - that's somebody's rule or law - some of the more eddicated folks on here can tell you which one.
Logged

R.J.(Bob) Evans
1981 Prevost 8-92, 10 spd
My website
Our weblog
Simply growing older is not the same as living.
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13131




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2011, 05:00:40 PM »

With just 8 tires on 1 bus I don't think it would be that great of a saving but a friend that owns Swift in Phoenix he uses Nitrogen he tells me it added 2 to 3-10ths mpg and around 70 to 80 % better tire wear so I wouldn't be too fast to shoot it down he has 4000 18 wheel rigs

I tried to figure his savings for the rigs based on 100,000 miles per year for each rig to much money for me to figure lol I know how Jerry works if it didn't save big bucks he wouldn't waste the money

good luck
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 05:11:21 PM by luvrbus » Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
Jeremy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1915


1987 Bedford Plaxton


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2011, 05:07:40 PM »

...that's somebody's rule or law...

Charles' law. (And the increase in pressure which thus occurs in covered by Boyle's Law).
Logged

A shameless plug for my business - visit www.magazineexchange.co.uk for back issue magazines - thousands of titles covering cars, motorbikes, aircraft, railways, boats, modelling etc. You'll find lots of interest, although not much covering American buses sadly.
blank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1929




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2011, 12:38:32 AM »

  They've used Nitrogen in aircraft for decades, not only tires but also pneumatic struts. Several factors exist, as stated very low moisture, another is it is inert so as to lessen the risks of flamability. Being inert it also has zero oxidation effect on rubber seals and o-rings. IIRC, it expands simularly to ambient air, but recall its dry almost zero moisture. Humid air has higher expansion rates than dry air, so nitrogen would therefore have expansion rates similar to dry air. Less humidity may also mean less corrosion....

  Its certainly not going to hurt anything, and it has some good (marginal) benefits over ambient air, just depends on the cost your comfortable paying to use it.
Logged
JackConrad
Orange Blossom Special II
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4447


73' MC-8 8V71/HT740 Southwest Florida


WWW
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2011, 04:12:04 AM »

Charles law: As temperature increases, pressure OR volume will also increase (see Bolyles law)
Boyles law: pressure and volume are inversly proportional
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 04:39:48 AM by JackConrad » Logged

Growing Older Is Mandatory, Growing Up Is Optional
Arcadia, Florida, When we are home
http://s682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/OBS-JC/
bevans6
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4882


1980 MCI MC-5C




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2011, 04:48:49 AM »

I have followed this for years, since nitrogen use in pro racing is ubiquitous, and I have always thought the reason was dry nitrogen did not expand as much as moist air, and you get more stable tire pressures.  So this morning I decided to look into it a bit and found this.  I thought it was interesting enough to cut and paste - it should be easy enough to verify the science.  The short form - moist air actually expands less with increased temperature than nitrogen...  so much for that theory...

Cheers, Brian

nitrogen

Nitrogen inflation (nitrogen filled tyres) is one of those topics that gets discussed in car circles a lot. Some people swear by it, whilst others consider it to be an expensive rip off. So what's the big idea? Well there are two common theories on this.

Theory 1: nitrogen molecules are larger than oxygen molecules so they won't permeate through the rubber of the tyre like oxygen will, and thus you'll never lose pressure over time due to leakage. The fact is any gas will leak out of a tyre if its at a higher pressure than the ambient pressure outside. The only way to stop it is a non-gas-permeable membrane lining the inside of the tyre.
The science bit: Water is about half the size of either nitrogen or oxygen, so it might diffuse out of the tyre faster, but it would have to be much, much faster to make a difference. Tyres can leak 1-2 psi a month at the extreme end of the scale although it's not clear how much of that is by permeation through the rubber, and how much is through microscopic leaks of various sorts. For a racing tyre to lose significant water during its racing lifetime (maybe an hour or so for Formula 1), the permeation rate would have to be hundreds of times faster than oxygen or nitrogen, so that pretty much cancels out the idea that it's the molecule size that makes the difference.

Theory 2: Nitrogen means less water vapour. This is more to do with the thermal properties than anything else. Nitrogen is an inert gas; it doesn't combust or oxidise. The process used to compress nitrogen eliminates water vapor and that's the key to this particular theory. When a tyre heats up under normal use, any water vapour inside it also heats up which causes an increase in tyre pressure. By removing water vapor with a pure nitrogen fill, you're basically going to allow the tyre to stay at a more constant pressure irrespective of temperature over the life of the tyre. In other words, your tyre pressures won't change as you drive.
The science bit: The van der Waals gas equation provides a good estimate for comparing the expansions of oxygen and nitrogen to water. If you compare moist air (20C, 80% RH) to nitrogen, you'll find that going up as far as 80C results in the moist air increasing in pressure by about 0.01 psi less per litre volume than nitrogen. Moist air will increase in pressure by 7.253psi whereas nitrogen will increase in pressure by 7.263psi. Even humid air has only a small amount of water in it (about 2 mole % which means about 2% by volume), so that all puts a bit of a blunt tip on the theory that it's the differences in thermal expansion rates that give nitrogen an advantage. In fact it would seem to suggest that damp air is marginally better than nitrogen. Go figure.

So which option is right - smaller molecules, or less water vapour? It would seem neither. A reader of this site had a good thought on the whole nitrogen inflation thing. He wrote: Some racer who did not know the details of chemistry and physics thought that nitrogen would be better because (insert plausible but incorrect science here) and he started using nitrogen. He won some races and word got out that he was using nitrogen in his tyres. Well, it is not expensive to use nitrogen in place of air, so pretty soon everyone was doing it. Hey, until I hear a reason that makes good scientific sense, this explanation seems just as good.

Nitrogen inflation is nothing new - the aerospace world has been doing it for years in aircraft tyres. Racing teams will also often use nitrogen inflation, but largely out of conveience rather than due to any specific performance benefit, which would tend to fit with the armchair science outlined above. Nitrogen is supplied in pressurised tanks, so no other equipment is needed to inflate the tyres - no compressors or generators or anything. Apart from that Nitrogen won't provide fuel in the event of a pit lane fire whereas compressed air tanks would, so there's a safety issue at play in that particular case. (Remember Jos Verstappen's pit lane fire in 1994?)

So does it make a difference to drivers in the real world? Well consider this; The air you breathe is already made up of 78% nitrogen. The composition is completed by 21% oxygen and tiny percentages of argon, carbon dioxide, neon, methane, helium, krypton, hydrogen and xenon. The kit that is used to generate nitrogen for road tyres typically only gets to about 95% purity. To get close to that in your tyres, you'd need to inflate and deflate them several times to purge any remaining oxygen and even then you're only likely to get about 90% pure nitrogen. So under ideal conditions, you're increasing the nitrogen content of the gas in the tyre from 78% to 90%. Given that nitrogen inflation from the average tyre workshop is a one-shot deal (no purging involved) you're more likely to be driving around with 80% pure nitrogen than 90%. That's a 2% difference from bog standard air. On top of that, nitrogen inflation doesn't make your tyres any less prone to damage from road debris and punctures and such. It doesn't make them any stronger, and if you need to top them up and use a regular garage air-line to do it, you've diluted whatever purity of nitrogen was in the tyres right there. For $30 a tyre for nitrogen inflation, do you think that's worth it? For all the alleged benefits of a nitrogen fill, you'd be far better off finding a tyre change place that has a vapour-elimination system in their air compressor. If they can pump up your tyres with dry air, you'll get about the same benefits as you would with a nitrogen inflation but for free.

Read more: http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible_pg3.html#ixzz1hGerLq7H
Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13131




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2011, 05:07:06 AM »

Ah the internet Brian there is just as many supporting nitrogen use I was reading one about million mile truck tires on a truck site then the report from a Canadian testing lab made good reading in support of Nitrogen a 2007 study

Back to the old ice cream theory what ever flavor you like.

I do know all the truck lines run Nitrogen in the super singles at a 1000 bucks a pop for the tire they squeeze every mile they can from those lol but for a bus type rv I cannot see the benefit,I think you do get ripped off from some if you have your own bottle the stuff is cheap from a welding supply,fwiw I use it our Lexus and the wife's Spitfire have for 10 years but I pay Cosco 20 bucks for all four tires noway would I pay 30 bucks a tire.Toyo,Bridgestone and Peterbuilt are big supporters of Nitgroen in truck tires 

good luck    
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 05:44:28 AM by luvrbus » Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
prevosman
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 185





Ignore
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2011, 05:29:37 AM »

In a discussion such as this it would be great if people would only state that which they can prove or know for certain.

In 35 years of plane ownership nobody has ever put nitrogen in my tires despite the last 25 years flying a plane that required 90 PSI. The only time I saw the use of nitrogen was in gear struts and then because the required pressures were greater than the output of the conventional shop compressor.

Nitrogen may be the best thing to use to inflate tires, but supporters of the practice often make such exagerated claims they overshadow what benefits the use of notrogen provides and makes everything they say seem like manure.
Logged

Jon Wehrenberg
Knoxville TN
1997 Prevost Liberty
Bill 340
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 178



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2011, 05:48:52 AM »

That;s exactly what I did, I posted MY results and My opinion.  I agree sometimes a real post gets lost in the science of disagreement, I am not up to date on all the tech stuff, As a lot of us its the Nitty Gritty we have to work with.And apparently some of your are  Scientist, that's great also, we need all of the opinions. just don't forget us lowly bus folk that only understand the real results..
Logged

Bill & Brenda Phelan
Lakeland florida..........Host of the ARCADIA RALLY
bevans6
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4882


1980 MCI MC-5C




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2011, 07:35:34 AM »

I'm not saying nitrogen is bad, I think nitrogen is indeed better than air from a random compressor in virtually all cases.  I just think the claims are overstated, the benefits are weak compared to costs, and I don't bother.  Probably the biggest benefit is a more inert gas mix, less oxygen would probably result in less corrosion inside the tire, which would be good.  I was really quite surprised that moist air expands less with temperature rise than nitrogen does - I had taken it as fact that nitrogen gave a lot less pressure rise that compressor air, and 99% of the racers you would ask would say the same thing.  I do think that the reason it gets used in racing is convenience - every team gets nitrogen delivered at every track, and they use it for everything - shocks, tires, air guns, blowing dust off the car.

Interesting to have learned something new today, anyway!

Brian
Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
blank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1929




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2011, 12:30:57 PM »

  In the more than two years I hung out as an airport bum wrenching on planes, every aircraft we worked on got pure nitrogen from a high pressure bottle (not a machine). We inflated tires with it, purged new tubes with it, and filled all struts with it. And it was FREE to the customer. And most of the maintenance shops Ive been around had a tank of it on a cart. Thats not saying Ive been in a lot of aviation shops, just the many I have been in had a tank of Nitrogen for those purposes.

  It isn't magic, the benefits are very marginal, but they are real. For free its a no brainer. Much more than that and its a total rip off. $30 a tire and the states AG should get involved, that is outright robbery.
Logged
bevans6
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4882


1980 MCI MC-5C




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2011, 12:52:11 PM »

I popped on over to a pro racing forum I hang out on, and asked them.  They confirmed that the rise in pressure from temperature is roughly the same for nitrogen as compressor air, but that the nitrogen is consistent so they can test and predict exactly the rise they will get every time.  that's why they purge and fill the tires, if they do.  They use it for their air tools in the pits, for the air jacks to lift the cars, for convenience and fire safety.  An aviation engineer (all types go car racing!) said FAA wants it in tires for fire safety as well.

Bottom line - it won't hurt and it might help, so why not, if it's free?  As for paying extra, do what makes you happy!   Grin

Brian
Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
blank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1929




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2011, 12:58:53 PM »

An aviation engineer (all types go car racing!) said FAA wants it in tires for fire safety as well.

Brian

  I been out of the aviation loop a while but I didnt know it was federally mandated. If it is it must be a somewhat recent decision.
Logged
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6979





Ignore
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2011, 01:15:44 PM »

The ONLY reason your tires run smoother and quieter is because you originally had the tire pressure to high, and the Nitrogen guy put in a lower tire pressure to give a better ride.  Try weighing both the front and back when full so you can look up the proper tire pressure for the weight in your tire manufactures tire pressure tables.

Nitrogen in tires is good-just have to carry nitrogen with to refill.  Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Iceni John
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 832




Ignore
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2011, 06:49:21 PM »

OK, here's another aspect of nitrogen in tires  -  how would it affect pyrolysis?   Specifically, I'm thinking about the risk of tire fires caused by over-heated brakes, maybe from a dragging brake.   I know that tires can explode if you're stupid enough to weld on rims with tires mounted on them, but if a tire were inflated with nitrogen would it have the same potential for pyrolysis compared with being inflated with air?   Yes, obviously brakes should be maintained so they don't drag and cause wheel fires, but it still does happen  -  last year I saw a new-looking Van Hool being brought in to ABC Bus with evidence of a serious fire from one of its rear wheels.

John    
Logged

1990 Crown 2R-40N-552:  6V92TAC, DDEC II, HT740, Jake.      Hecho en Chino.     
Behind the Orange Curtain, SoCal.
blank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1929




Ignore
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2011, 02:38:07 AM »

  I personally think the fire risk with a tire would be the same whether filled with air or Nitrogen. At least in the normal world. Most tires catch on fire externally and whats inside them would have zero effect until the casing ruptured and by then it wont matter On aircraft the wheels and struts are more commonly made of Magnesium, so anything that reduces oxidation or minimizes fire risk is beneficial.
Logged
junkman42
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 454





Ignore
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2011, 07:31:32 AM »

Consider this!  As o2 molecules pass through the tire from inside to the outside the o2 cause oxidation to the tire structure.  The biggest benefit is tire longevity.  And yes I have it in the super car tires on My z06 vette.  I am a sucker for science.  John L
Logged
jbnewman
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 53




Ignore
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2011, 08:47:35 AM »

A quick Google indicates that in 1990, the FAA started requiring an inert gas, such as nitrogen, be used in lieu of air, for inflation of tires on certain transport category airplanes.

Disclaimer: This message is not intended to suggest that this is still in force, in force for more than the planes mentioned, or that any previous poster is right, wrong, or indifferent. It is only intended to provide an additional data point for the conversation.
Logged

-jbn
Justin
Chicago, Illinois

No bus.
chev49
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 763




Ignore
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2011, 09:09:06 AM »

does this mean i need to remove the accetlene from mine? Grin
Logged

If you want someone to hold your hand, join a union.
Union with Christ is the best one...
Lin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4604

1965 MC-5a




Ignore
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2011, 03:09:50 PM »

The internet seems to present ample research to say nitrogen is superior to straight compressed air.  I would use it if available.  However, for convenience I use my own compressors to fill my tires.  Since we live in a desert and the compressor has a water separator, I do not think that condensation is a real issue.  I do not expect to start carrying a nitrogen bottle for the road either.  So it looks like I will be settling for 2nd best for the time being.  I know that that sounds really strange coming from a 5a owner.
Logged

You don't have to believe everything you think.
Ed Hackenbruch
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2478




Ignore
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2011, 03:36:48 PM »

Boy Lin, you are right!,   that really is strange to hear from a 5A owner!!! Grin
Logged

1968 MCI 5A with 8V71 and Allison MT644 transmission.  Western USA
wg4t50
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 834





Ignore
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2011, 06:41:47 PM »

I think it might be simpler to use Helium instead of Nitrogen, there might be many advantages to the Helium use.  Beside the improved ride, extended tire mileage, self balancing, improves the toe in diffrerencs, improves traction on ice, improved fuel mileage and if you ever get caught on the scales, you would have an advantage.  I am sure there are other biggie advantages ?  Grin
Logged

MCI7 20+ Yrs
Foretravel w/ISM500
WG4T CW for over 50 wpm for ever.
Central Virginia
Van
Billy Van Hagen
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2390


89' Silver Eagle 15/40 6V92MUI Boulder City,NV




Ignore
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2011, 08:03:40 PM »

Maybe Nitrous, Figure if you can keep those lil' o2 buggers happy they might stay in longer lol! Grin 9 outta 10 dentist' would approve I'm sure. Grin
Logged

If you are not living on the edge, then you're takin' up too much space!!!
JWallin
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 59




Ignore
« Reply #32 on: December 29, 2011, 01:42:49 AM »

Helium, Really?  With the smallest molecule on the periodic table, helium is used to test high vacuum systems for leaks because it migrates easily. If you put it in your tires they will stay inflated about as long as a kids helium filled balloon. As oxygen and nitrogen are neighbors on the periodic chart there is really no benefit in using one over the other for inflation. And since the "air" coming out of your compressor is about 83% nitrogen the only major difference is the money that leaves your wallet and ends up in the nitrogen providers instead.
Logged
brando4905
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 227



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2011, 05:31:02 AM »

Really surprised Nick hasn't chimed in yet. I worked in the HVAC field for almost 10yrs, and anytime we did a repair that warranted opening the refrigeration side of a system, after the fix the lines were charged back up with Nitrogen and left over night. We did this to check for leaks, as the nitrogen pressure would remain constant with temp change. If gauges still read same as the day before, all was well.

Really surprised to hear that all gases pressure change with temp.  Huh
Logged

1980 GMC H8H-649  8V71/V730 Marion,NC

"The highway is for gamblers, better use your sense" -Dylan
Nusa
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 540




Ignore
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2011, 09:45:47 AM »

Actually, Hydrogen is the smallest molecule on the periodic table. Helium would the the smallest molecule of the inert gasses. And yes, both of those gasses have issues with longer-term storage as they will slowly leak right through the walls of whatever container they're in. Hydrogen storage issues are a main reason hydrogen powered vehicles haven't become commercially viable.

Nitrogen is not technically an inert gas, but it is very close to inert and CHEAP to produce, so it gets used in many applications on a cost basis alone.
Logged
kyle4501
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3154


PD4501 South Carolina




Ignore
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2011, 08:28:54 PM »

Nitrogen is dry & doesn't oxidize rubber. That is something that will improve the life of your tires.
Logged

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. (R.M. Nixon)
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!