Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
August 20, 2014, 11:20:40 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you had an E-Mag Subscription: It will not get torn up or crushed if you back over it with your bus.
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Will an MCI bus act as a faraday cage?  (Read 2522 times)
Oregonconversion
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 300



WWW

Ignore
« on: December 30, 2011, 02:07:48 AM »

Does anyone know if a bus will act as a faraday cage for protecting electronics from an EMP or solar storm?

Im guessing no, because of the windows. I am just looking for some thoughts about this topic.

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/274395/20111230/solar-storm-expected-worsen-2012.htm
Logged

1977 MC8
8V92 HT740
Jeremy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1867


1987 Bedford Plaxton


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2011, 05:08:37 AM »

The windows probably help - at least, Faraday cages are usually built of mesh rather than with solid walls. Inside a car (or a bus) is a very good place to be in a lightning storm - but some kind of mythical EMP strike? Who knows. Find a survivalist wearing a tin foil hat and ask him. (Not meaning to be flippant, but I think a magnetic storm in the atmosphere and an Electromagnetic Pulse hitting something like a bus are two fundamentally different things).

Jeremy
Logged

A shameless plug for my business - visit www.magazineexchange.co.uk for back issue magazines - thousands of titles covering cars, motorbikes, aircraft, railways, boats, modelling etc. You'll find lots of interest, although not much covering American buses sadly.
Oregonconversion
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 300



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2011, 09:18:15 AM »

Sure they are different , but can be protected the same way.
Logged

1977 MC8
8V92 HT740
paulrobie
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 89





Ignore
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2011, 10:33:33 AM »

The windows probably help - at least, Faraday cages are usually built of mesh rather than with solid walls. Inside a car (or a bus) is a very good place to be in a lightning storm - but some kind of mythical EMP strike? Who knows. Find a survivalist wearing a tin foil hat and ask him. (Not meaning to be flippant, but I think a magnetic storm in the atmosphere and an Electromagnetic Pulse hitting something like a bus are two fundamentally different things).

Jeremy

Sooooo... survivalists wear tin foil hats? Interesting.
Logged

Organization is the sign of a sick mind..
1981 MCI - MC 9
Jeremy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1867


1987 Bedford Plaxton


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2011, 10:52:17 AM »

Walter's Survival Tips - Tin Foil Hats

Logged

A shameless plug for my business - visit www.magazineexchange.co.uk for back issue magazines - thousands of titles covering cars, motorbikes, aircraft, railways, boats, modelling etc. You'll find lots of interest, although not much covering American buses sadly.
HB of CJ
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1240




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2011, 12:31:09 PM »

Your coach as a Faraday cage?  Dunno. Probably not.  As an EMP repeller--resister?  Nope.  The very short, very powerful spike (thousands of times worserer than a lightning strike) will get in thru the windows and stuff.  As a CME resister?  Probably to some degree---effectiveness unknown.  Sosss...except for all the dunnos, nopes, worserers and unknowns....everything is hunky-dorry.  HB of CJ (old coot) Smiley Smiley Smiley
Logged
Kwajdiver
MCI-9 "Kwaj Diver"
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1155





Ignore
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2011, 12:56:13 PM »

The widows would have to be covered with a fine metal mesh or perforated sheet metal. All holes would have to be smaller than radiation's wavelength that you are trying to protect from.  Oh yes!  A really good grounding system is a must.

You would want an environment devoid of electromagnetic interference such as we use within a screen room. Screen rooms are design to block out all external electromagnetic fields and are grounded to dissipate any electric currents.

Sooo, do you wish to make your bus a large screen room?

 
Bill
Logged

Auburndale, Florida
MCI-9
V-6-92 Detroit, Allison 5 spd auto
Kwajalein Atoll, RMI
Lee Bradley
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 706




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2011, 01:07:28 PM »

A Faraday suit in action.

Tesla Coil Show
Logged
bevans6
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4573


1980 MCI MC-5C




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2011, 01:16:11 PM »

Back in the early days of my career I worked with the government and military in Ottawa setting up a Tempest secure communications room.  From what I recall the apertures in the mesh need to be of a particular size to control the frequency range you are worried about, so no, I don't think a bus will be a great faraday cage.  Does your cell phone work inside the bus?  if it does, the bus is pretty leaky.

Musicians love EMP's.  The reason high quality vacuum tubes are still available for us to run in our vintage blackface Fenders is that tubes are highly resistant to EMP.  The tubes, for the paranoid amoung us, come from Russia...

Brian
Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
Nusa
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 540




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2011, 05:43:44 PM »

Most of you already own a small Faraday cage, more commonly known as the "Microwave". If you were to place your cell phone inside the microwave, your phone would have no signal. I'd unplug the microwave for that experiment, as accidentally turning it on will destroy the phone.
Logged
chev49
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 763




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2011, 08:48:53 AM »

guess from the digresssssion in this post that an emp strike while being in the bus will turn us into microwave popcorn.. Grin
Logged

If you want someone to hold your hand, join a union.
Union with Christ is the best one...
gcyeaw
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 26


1983 Bluebird Forward Control




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2012, 01:07:10 PM »

As far as the original question, "Would my bus act as a Faraday cage"--I'd be shocked if it didn't
Logged

Gardner
1983 Bluebird FC.
Nusa
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 540




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2012, 02:57:04 PM »

As far as the original question, "Would my bus act as a Faraday cage"--I'd be shocked if it didn't


No, it will give minimal protection, unless you have proper metallic screening on all the openings, such as windows, vents, and other openings to the areas needing protection.

Humans don't need EMP protection, unless they depend on life-support electronics. Ditto for drivetrains -- pre-electronic ones likely need no protection. It's usually easier to just shield the electronics themselves, if they're valuable enough or important enough to justify the effort. It's often cheaper to just carry backups of any truly essential devices in closed metal containers.

The younger generations would disagree, but I wouldn't classify a phone as essential. There's not much point in having a phone survive an event that destroys all the cell-phone towers.

Here's a good overview page on the subject:
Quote
http://www.doh.wa.gov/ehp/rp/factsheets/factsheets-htm/fs41elecpuls.htm


Logged
buswarrior
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3571


'75 MC8 8V71 HT740




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2012, 04:47:56 PM »

I liked the play on words!

shocked.... hahahahaha

happy coaching!
buswarrior
Logged

Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area
Nusa
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 540




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2012, 08:12:58 PM »

Hah, I have to admit I missed the joke there.
Logged
blank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1929




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2012, 11:49:03 PM »

Here's a good overview page on the subject:
Quote
http://www.doh.wa.gov/ehp/rp/factsheets/factsheets-htm/fs41elecpuls.htm




  Beginning at the third paragraph down "A 1.4 Megaton bomb launched about 250 miles above Kansas would destroy most of the electronics that were not protected in the entire Continental United States."

  And what exactly does "protected" mean? I have a Ret. Navy Adm. friend, plus my Uncle who did stuff for the Navy nobody needs to know about. To protect electronics from a "war level" EMP attack, they suggest items be unpowered and de-batteried, placed within double faraday cages with everything electrically isolated from one another, and the cage protected within lead shielding or stored a minimum two feet underground. Overkill? Maybe. But not if thats the minimum protection needed.

  A Bus is a horrible faraday cage. It would give good protection from lightning, but not from a good war level EMP.

  Notice no one mentions Canada or Mexico. Its like the weather, like our radar antennas and satellites cant see past the border. A blast of EMP over Kansas and they will be in the dark just as bad as us.

  So you save a bunch of electronics by whatever means you decide, and it worked, they aren't damaged. Big deal. The rest of the country is in the dark, and is going to remain so for a very long time. We better pray we know how to survive without electricity if something that bad ever happens.

 
Logged
Jeremy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1867


1987 Bedford Plaxton


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2012, 03:36:48 AM »

Anyone got a design for a cage that will protect the human body from "A 1.4 Megaton bomb launched about 250 miles above Kansas"?

Let's keep things in perspective people. Probably not much point in having a nice-running bus after a nuclear holocaust.


Jeremy
Logged

A shameless plug for my business - visit www.magazineexchange.co.uk for back issue magazines - thousands of titles covering cars, motorbikes, aircraft, railways, boats, modelling etc. You'll find lots of interest, although not much covering American buses sadly.
blank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1929




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2012, 02:15:42 PM »

  A bomb detonated that high in altitude is only meant to cause massive EMP damage, not kill people or destroy structures or the physical environment.
 


 
Logged
Nusa
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 540




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2012, 08:16:10 PM »

Aye, 250 miles is low earth orbit. The International Space Station orbits at 211 miles, to put it in perspective.

But read up on it if you want. Both the USA and the USSR experimented with nuclear explosions at those altitudes in the 1960's.
Logged
Jeremy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1867


1987 Bedford Plaxton


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2012, 04:12:02 AM »

Er, perhaps you guys are missing the point just a teensy tiny little bit??

Irrespective of their intention ('they', depending upon your pet conspiracy theory, presumably being the Ruskies, Martians or your own Government), you're talking about whether your bus will still run after the USA is attacked with nuclear weapons. Perspective people, perspective.

Or perhaps you're prepared for anything because you've got diesel and suncream stored in the cellar and the local leukaemia specialist on the speed-dial. And a tin foil hat.


(Sorry - deep into Off Topic territory now, and all my fault).


Jeremy



Logged

A shameless plug for my business - visit www.magazineexchange.co.uk for back issue magazines - thousands of titles covering cars, motorbikes, aircraft, railways, boats, modelling etc. You'll find lots of interest, although not much covering American buses sadly.
chev49
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 763




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2012, 08:05:41 AM »

Hope you aren't dissing tin foil hats again... i am wearing mine right now... Grin
Logged

If you want someone to hold your hand, join a union.
Union with Christ is the best one...
blank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1929




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2012, 01:46:00 PM »

Er, perhaps you guys are missing the point just a teensy tiny little bit??

  I don't believe I am missing the point at all. Just about anyone with a brain cell has to conclude that sooner or later some nutjob is going to do something destructive, either as an act of War or an act of Terrorism. We can either go through life pretending everything is going to be the same every day like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day, or we can take a proactive role in making educated assessments of threats and try make some kind of reasonable attempt at dealing with them.

  I know for a fact that China is itching to get into it. They have surfaced their Submarines within close range of our Naval Aircraft Carriers completely undetected until we made visual contact, not once but several times, and they are armed as least half as well as the old USSR was, but with far better and much more technologically advanced equipment. To pretend they are not a threat to the Wests way of life is absolute ignorance.

  An EMP as suggested above (by a state government website I might add), is a very real scenario that many in the upper end of the Military believe could (and likely will) take place at some point. It will not kill or fry anyone, thats NOT its intent. It will however, very likely kill, fry, and destroy everything we have plugged in to the grid, the grid itself, anything running on a generator and the generator itself, and likely every transistor and integrated circuit in the continental US that isnt buried 2 feet underground in a sealed trash can.

  I am not about to look at the possibility of something like that taking place, and not make some kind of effort to make sure I can get into town and get my daughter the hell out of there if shes at school. And yes, I do believe some vehicles will still operate after a massive EMP. If I prepare and nothing happens, you can call me a tin foil hat wearer all you want. 

 
Logged
Jeremy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1867


1987 Bedford Plaxton


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2012, 03:33:07 PM »

It's not that the threat doesn't exist - every child who's sat in a history class knows the threat exisits - but that in most cases something as devastating as a nuclear attack probably isn't worth surviving. In my opinion. And yes, something as 'minor' as an EMP attack is probably something an individual could get through relatively unscathed in the short term. But it would be have a fundamental and lasting effect on the society we all exist in, and rely on.

I actually have a similar view on the subject of global warming - yes, it's probably happening, but is there any real likelyhood of us being able to slow it down, much less stop it or reverse it? No. To my mind both issues are a similar case of 'perspective' - well intentioned people completely losing sight of the bigger picture:- having the right goal but wasting their efforts in the wrong direction.


Jeremy

PS. No risk from China - why send your best customer back to the stone age?

Logged

A shameless plug for my business - visit www.magazineexchange.co.uk for back issue magazines - thousands of titles covering cars, motorbikes, aircraft, railways, boats, modelling etc. You'll find lots of interest, although not much covering American buses sadly.
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!