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Author Topic: EPA  (Read 3156 times)
Don Fairchild
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« on: January 10, 2012, 09:26:36 AM »

A new law suite filed by the truckers association against the EPA to stop the new laws from going into effect on 2014. The EPA has written a new rule that all trucks, tractor/trailers and RV must reduce emissions by 20% beginning 2014 and this will apply to all vehicles on the road regardless of year model. Their will be no grandfathering in of older vehicles. Of coarse the obama administration and the EPA have written an exemption for themselves.

I stay out of most political rants but this one effects us all. I urge you to write a letter to your congressmen or women and tell them to stop the EPA and their agenda.  If this passes it will put an end to our buses.

Sorry

Don
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stevet903
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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2012, 09:34:06 AM »

Don - will your technology meet the new requirements on a 2-stroke?
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Don Fairchild
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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2012, 09:39:02 AM »

Steve,as of now we meet the tier II regs for the off road and marine, I am working on the tier IV regs at this time. It will use an add on of some type like a DOC instead of the DPF and urea. Once we meet the on road rules we still have to get the EPA to buy off on it.

Know any good investors with deep pockets.

Don
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Sean
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« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2012, 11:54:15 AM »

Don,

Could you please cite the specific law here?  I've been all over the Tier IV (2014) federal standards and nowhere does it say that it will apply retroactively to RVs manufactured prior to 2013.  Perhaps I am looking in the wrong place.

-Sean
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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2012, 01:03:13 PM »

Sean, I don't have the rule number as of yet, I was reading from the law suite that was filed by the CTA. as soon as I can find the law I will post it for all to see. I have e-mailed a couple of people I know at CARB for clarification and they have said that it is their understanding that all vehicles fall under this reg but could not site the reg # so I could look it up. A lot of these rules and Reg's were not supposed to come about until after 2025 and only apply to new not the used market. Reading some of the proposed rules by cal EPA and CARB, Cal is wanting to stop all sales of used vehicles that do not meet the emission standards when the vehicle is sold regardless of year model. meaning it does not matter when the vehicle was new it will have to meet the standards in effect each time it is sold.

As I get more I will post it.

Thanks

Don
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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2012, 01:15:27 PM »

So, if this is true, it would only apply to CA?
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« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2012, 01:22:35 PM »

  They wont ever give up in their attempt to cap every oil well, seal every coal mine, and put all of us on a bicycle. That is their goal. They dont want reduced emissions, they want zero.


  Might as well move the thread to off topic because its going to catch fire soon. There is not any way I can comment without showing my anger and making political comments, and I would bet a few others cant either.
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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2012, 01:25:09 PM »

So, if this is true, it would only apply to CA?

  The sooner that commie state falls into the Pacific the better. Too bad there isnt some simple way to help it along.
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« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2012, 01:42:01 PM »

Hahaha.. right now they are all moving up to oregon here...

I personally am more concerned about Obamma signing the "arrest anyone they choose and do whatever they want with them"  cause someday they will say that busnuts are crazy and haul them off never to be seen again...

This country is exactly like i saw it as a child... not really.

am i getting off topic? 

OK.."Hail the EPA" Smiley
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Sean
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« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2012, 02:36:04 PM »

... Reading some of the proposed rules by cal EPA and CARB, Cal is wanting to stop all sales of used vehicles that do not meet the emission standards when the vehicle is sold regardless of year model. meaning it does not matter when the vehicle was new it will have to meet the standards in effect each time it is sold. ...


CARB, of course, is a completely different matter; I see nothing in the federal regs that will affect our buses.  As for CARB, as you may know, each and every time they have tried to implement a regulation that would apply retroactively to older RVs they have been defeated by the relatively strong RV camping lobby.  So I would not worry too much about anything they say about Tier IV, either.  They may ultimately be successful in restricting sales in CA or to Californians, but that would affect relatively few of us here on the board.

Just mentioning this before anyone here panics.  And/or before this thread degenerates even further off topic, into rants.

-Sean
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« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2012, 02:39:54 PM »

Just a reminder. Lets stcik to facts and leave the politcfal opinions in the off -topic Bb or this thread will probably be moved.  One of your friendly moderators.
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« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2012, 03:17:25 PM »


  The sooner that commie state falls into the Pacific the better. Too bad there isnt some simple way to help it along.

Now we understand the research into EMP...


Jeremy
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« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2012, 03:35:06 PM »

Hello;   Look up  EPA-420-F-10-901   see what you get.  there is an update on this issued oct 2011 but I cannot find it . regards  mike
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« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2012, 04:31:05 PM »

How the heck can they reasonably decrease emissions by another 20% and then keep decreasing from there?  Haven't emissions already been decreased by at least a factor of 10 since the 1970s.

If there is any truth to all trucks having to be replaced every time there is an emissions change the truckers have every right to be up in arms.  I'll be right there supporting their cause if it is true.
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Sean
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« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2012, 05:07:22 PM »

Hello;   Look up  EPA-420-F-10-901   see what you get.  there is an update on this issued oct 2011 but I cannot find it . regards  mike

Mike, those proposed rules would only apply to vehicles manufactured after model year 2013.  They do not apply retroactively to existing vehicles as Don has claimed.

-Sean
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« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2012, 06:24:19 PM »

I really appreciate the knowledgeable thouhgts posted here. Thanks.
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« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2012, 07:57:26 PM »


  The sooner that commie state falls into the Pacific the better. Too bad there isnt some simple way to help it along.

Now we understand the research into EMP...


Jeremy

  I doubt that you do at all.   
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« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2012, 08:11:01 PM »

I think Jeremy's post was a joke, in that California--home to Google, Apple, and who knows what else, would be a much different place after an EMP attack.
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Don Fairchild
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« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2012, 08:29:55 AM »

Sean, This is not my claim. This is an article from Claudia cowen@fox news.

The law suit claims that the EPA went around normal channels and is trying to move the 2025 proposed rules up to 2014.
Read agenda 21 then SB 376 then AB 32 you will see where this is coming from.

Don
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Sean
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« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2012, 10:06:01 AM »

Sean, This is not my claim. This is an article from Claudia cowen@fox news.

Sorry, Don, I should have said "the claim in Don's post."  Did not mean to suggest that you originated this claim.

Quote
The law suit claims that the EPA went around normal channels and is trying to move the 2025 proposed rules up to 2014.
Read agenda 21 then SB 376 then AB 32 you will see where this is coming from.

OK, so this is Cal-EPA, not federal EPA, as these are California senate/assembly bills.  Again, will not affect most of us.  Also, as a reminder for everyone, we've been through this many times before, and RVs always manage to get exempted before the bills pass -- a significant number of California legislators and/or their high-power constituents own motor homes, and they represent a tiny, almost insignificant fraction of the vehicles on the road.  See, for example, these threads, from the last time we went through this:
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=13603.msg143425#msg143425
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=12076.msg126647#msg126647

FWIW.

-Sean
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Don Fairchild
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« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2012, 10:27:40 AM »

Sean, I didn't take it personal I just put out their where the info is coming from. The problem with this kinds of issues is that if it is a cal only suit then if it goes through it will be addopted by New Jersey then New York then Colorado and then maybe a couple other states then the Fed's will adopt it. That is why we need to stop this from happening. It is only a matter of time be fore we all lose if we don't stand up now.

Don
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Don Fairchild
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« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2012, 10:40:37 AM »

Sean, I went back and look at the artical and it is a FED EPA suit not a cal EPA suit.

Don
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« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2012, 10:56:31 AM »

Yep so goes the land of fruits and nuts so goes the rest of the USA ,here in Az they are filing a suit and try to stop it you are only kidding yourself thinking rv's are going to exempt
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« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2012, 10:38:37 PM »

Sean is correct.
They have tried this so many times and even FMCA has fought this and helped to get it stopped. According to the laws it still is 2025 and yes the EPA will try to get it changed but as usual it will never make it through. Enjoy your Buses, We do!!! Grin Cheesy
And I regurgitate those California Remarks, our farmers grow your Fruits and Nuts here so just remember that! and some of us are republicans ya know, LOL

Dave
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« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2012, 08:30:33 AM »

  Dave, I was only referring to the icky parts of the state falling into the ocean. Get rid of the fruits and nuts and fix your legislature and I would love to live there. But the way they are going I don't know if I even care to visit. Or even if I could.

  Do you know if all vehicles entering are tested and must pass exhaust emissions and be inspected that all emissions equipment is present and functional?? I know that out of state HD vehicles (trucks and buses) traveling there can be stopped, tested and inspected, and must comply, can be fined, etc., but havnt found anything specific to other vehicles. Is a Bus motorhome/RV considered a HD vehicle??

  While I couldnt find anything that spoke directly about making the rules retroactive to older vehicles in Federal EPA rules, I did read something in Cali EPA rules that suggested it and there is a suit in the works to get a ruling.

  So yeah, safe for now. Maybe. But as suggested, if this isnt fought every step of the way and beat down into submission, it will keep brewing and has a good chance of getting passed sooner or later. The crazies never give up.
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« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2012, 09:23:06 AM »

Just driving into the state, they only check at the boarders like Tahoe etc., for plants or fruit (see how good that worked ?) and not on any vehicle smog unless you have an out of date with no tag vehicle. Then they will only write you a fix-it ticket which gives you 30 days to fix-it.
smog test only when registering a vehicle gas motor and some newer diesel cars. If you live here they only have you take it in to test every other year and not for the first 5 years if it is new.

Commercial only on Heavy Duty vehicales over ( I believe it is) 12,001 Lbs diesels and that is DOT. And new cars with them also.

When we lived in Colorado it was actually more of a PITA there than it is here.

There are no Icky parts, just icky people as there are in all states. Just so you know there are more in Denver than SF and NY. We live in Northern California not the other state,LOL
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Don Fairchild
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« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2012, 09:38:54 AM »

I believe it was 2003 that the southcoast air district ruled the you could not bring a diesel powered anything into the la basin, and wanted all diesel vehicles stopped at the cal boarders and the vehicles turned around or the goods transfered to electric vehicles.  They were sued by the vehicles manufactures and South coast air district lost, so what did they do, the lobbied c.a.r.b. and the EPA for a law to do what they wanted them to do. The EPA wrote the rule and carb addopted it. They were again sued and the rule was put on hold by the courts not thrown out as it should have been. The EPA then wrote the port rules that came down hard on the railroads and goods movement throughout the US. Almost all of the ports have now addopted this rule.

I am a member of sema and a few other organizations that fight with EPA and carb. These rule will go through at some time and effect all of us. We need to stop these regulators as every turn if we can.

Thanks

Don
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« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2012, 01:38:42 PM »

See what you've done, Don, you've brought all the wackos out of the woodwork!!
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« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2012, 02:51:18 PM »

Gus, I need to create a little so I can get reacquainted with the masses don't I. LOL

Why don't you load up and come over to Bk's the first of Sept.

Don
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« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2012, 07:18:09 AM »

The funny thing about CARB (California Air Resource Board) is that they don't talk with the DMV.  So even if you have a commercial vehicle that is out of date (right now older then 1999) DMV will still send you a renewal notice for another year.

I'm not to worried about these new suggested regulations.  RVIA, FMCA, Sams, are all very powerful.  So far, older single use Diesel vehicles-like RV's and bus conversions are exempt from smog laws.  I'm still seeing new RV's being sold with older certified engines in them.

At Los Angeles Freightliner, we have one of our new truck salesman as a smog regulation expert.  All he does is to go to the CARB meetings (man talk about boring-I've also gone a couple of times) to keep up with regulations.

If it does get to that point where I can't run my 1984 Kenworth with a mechanical Caterpillar 3406B (it is registered as a motorhome-MH) I'll have a 2010 certified Cummins ISL 450hp installed.  Granted it will cost around $60,000.00-but by the time that happens, even gas powered sticks and staples will be over $200,000.00. 

The best thing to do is to keep your bus running well with the least amount of smoke possible.  We don't want to give ammunition to the voting public.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2012, 02:30:26 PM »

Don,

I've been giving that some thought since it isn't all that far from me and will probably attend.
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« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2012, 04:56:29 PM »

Gus, I need to create a little so I can get reacquainted with the masses don't I. LOL

Why don't you load up and come over to Bk's the first of Sept.

Is BK having a rally or something in Sept?
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Don Fairchild
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« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2012, 09:36:44 AM »

No Bk is not having a rally, we are just going to show up and take over for a weekend. LOL

Hope to see you their.

Don
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