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Author Topic: Accelerator pics->  (Read 1297 times)
Brill-o
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« on: October 23, 2006, 10:50:58 AM »

Hello again-

First off, JR- Our thoughts are we you (and anyone else here) that has to go under the knife or be sedated.

Seeing as this has become a topic of some interest, I figured I’d give it some new space-

Here are some pics I’ve just finishing taking. These are the best I could do being that it’s 40 degrees and drizzling outside. Brrrrrr!!

The first just shows the pedal.

Cont..
« Last Edit: October 23, 2006, 11:04:37 AM by Dallas » Logged

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Brill-o
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« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2006, 10:52:44 AM »


The second shows the bracket (on the left) where it’s rusted through.
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Brill-o
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« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2006, 10:54:55 AM »


The third shows the pivot tube next to the linkage rod. The linkage rod is a simple ball-pivot type with adjustable heim-joint type ends.
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Brill-o
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« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2006, 10:57:52 AM »

This one is the adjuster before the cable goes to the linkage by the pedal.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2006, 11:05:53 AM by Dallas » Logged

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Brill-o
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« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2006, 11:00:55 AM »

This last one is the cable end assembly by the carb.

The cable sheath routes from the front middle underbody through a channel on top of the cross-member, then gradually turns left to the carb.

There may be a couple more pics of the bracket assembly in my photo album on the first page or two. That is when I first discovered it-

And of course, I posted theses backwards again , and spelled the title wrong...


Cheers-



« Last Edit: October 23, 2006, 11:05:24 AM by Dallas » Logged

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NJT5047
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« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2006, 11:44:46 AM »

Hi Barry,  you could definitely use a Morse cable in that application.   A similar clevis is available for both ends.  The system would have to have mounts fabbed so that the cable "range of motion" is geometrically correct.  A Morse cable moves about 4" total...if the accel moves more than this, just move the clevis mount closer to the pivot point of both the carb and accel.  The carb won't move more than 4 inches.   You'd want to be sure that the carb linkage isn't "loaded" when at full throttle.   Adjustment would have to be built into the engine mount (or accel mount).  The engine end would be easier to adjust.   
Measure the approx length and let me know the number.  The system you have is an early application of what Morse has superceded.  They work identically.    Yours is a "pull" cable. 
Regarding the cold...yeah...I was going to mow some grass today, phooey on that.  Windy and cold.   Also had planned to change the fuel filters and oil on the bus, but, since surg AM tomorrow, don't want to get diesel fuel all over.  Worked on the bus interior a little . 
Get me a cable length.   Even if I don't have a cable long enough, I'll send one up to you so you can look at it.  They are not expensive.  If you like what you see, any boat dealy will have them.   You can use the ends of my "sample" as a model.   Throw it away when you get thru.    There may some other ideas for your throttle system...?   
Best, JR
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.”

Ayn Rand
TomC
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« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2006, 12:16:33 PM »

What about just changing to an air throttle?  Easy on the foot and very reliable.  Only drawback, if air is out, no throttle.  I don't know if the Hall-Scott needs to be pumped to start, but this might be an issue.  Course alot are installing elec air compressors just for topping off or to not run the big engine excessively in the morning when leaving a campground.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
NJT5047
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« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2006, 02:14:58 PM »

That's an idea.  With nothing but the air brakes on the system, the air system could be made pretty tight.  Should hold air for a while.  A small air compressor would pump up the system fast. 
The engine may have a mechanical choke, which would allow starting...it would set the fast idle and "pump" the carb accel pump.   Only problem would exist is "lflooded  start" without air, the throttle couldn't be held wide open.
Doesn't the engine have a side draft carb?  May not flood easily?  I dunno.
JR
 
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.”

Ayn Rand
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« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2006, 03:21:14 PM »

Hi Barry,

JR offered some real good advice on the Morse cable.  It's was basically a Marine cable but am sure there were other applications and the are all sorts of adapters and clamps that could be used to replace the existing ones.  I have a great connection with Jerry's Marine Service of Fort Lauderdale, Charleston, SC and New Jersey if you need a complete catalog...or you can go the their website for particulars.  I also have some 1/4-28 ball socket ends that I'll be happy to contribute to your project. ( the 1/4-28 is the end that threads on the Morse cable, 33C, with a ball socket that is 1/4" if I recall correctly).

You must have the patience of Job...but keep up the good work....

NCbob
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Brill-o
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« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2006, 05:28:52 PM »


Hello Everyone-

Good gosh!
 I’m glad I reading this stuff instead of hearing it on the phone! I’d be lost! At least I can take notes this way!
You guys are waaay above my head and have more confidence in me than I have!

Ok, I’ll explain what I’ve found, and add to what I’ve said:

The cable housing is at least 4 sections—all adjustable screw type.
It looks like any other cable—except for the ends.
The outside sheath is copper and much larger than the cable-

Now to the cable itself:

Both ends are (what looks to be) the same—a 4-inch steel (?) shaft which the cable seems a part of, and 7 or so inch steel rod with two flat ends with holes in them for the mounting pins/bolts. I do need to re-look all this over, to be absolutely sure, though-

The carb is a side-draft with no steps for the choke. It has a simple arm to control the butterfly.

The choke is electric- bolted to the top of the carb and is controlled by a switch on the driver’s panel.
It has an internal coil, which powers it.
  An arm inside is charged by the coil to create a field and swing the lever. It’s either open, or closed-

I checked it, and it gets too low a voltage to make it work.
Everything is loose and nothing in the choke assembly is binding.

I know I’ve repeated myself (It’s for my good-not yours!), but this is all I know at the time-

I bring this up because of some of the ideas given here:

Jr-
You are right- only about 4 inches of total travel.
A pull cable? Yes, you are spot-on again.
I don’t know what you meant by “loaded” unless this means being in part-operation when not being used?

Tom-
Air would be feasible, as the choke is electric. I don’t know about adding a small compressor for it, though? Seems like overkill-
It starts right up with the choke and no pumping (yet).
Plus, I believe I’d trust a simple mechanical linkage over a pressurized system in this application.

Jr again-
I answered the sum of you questions above and in the reply to Tom, but I can add that this thing is near impossible to flood-

When I first tried starting it, I thought I’d flooded it…..so wrong!
It took about a half quart to get it to fire the first time! Fuel was literally dripping out the throat before she would catch.

Also, there’s a spring-loaded cap, which sits outside and on the bottom of the float bowl. When too much fuel is introduced it leaks out of there-
I’m guessing that’s what it’s for?

Bob-
I don’t know where the ball ends are as of yet, but will keep looking for them. Are they inside the sheath? Is the cable connected inside by them?

 And I appreciate both you and Jr’s generosity!
 I will find more out before I hold my hand out, though- (I’m keeping my eyes low of the “gift horse.”)

I will measure the cable and sheath length and try to get more pics of the ends, and its route through the chassis.

It will be a day or two as I’m also tending to a 3-year old with a cold (one of my “Brilldren”).

For more pics of the carb and choke up close, check out my photo album-

Thank you all for the great input!

I can’t imagine what will happen when I ask you folks a question about something newer you’re really familiar with (like water tanks, gennys, plumbing and converters), and not 60 years old!!

Thanks so much once more-


Cheers..


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NJT5047
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« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2006, 05:44:22 PM »

Barry, what I mean by "loading" the carb linkage is that you don't want to pull the linkage past the point of where the butterfly, or butterfly stops limit the travel.  Something will break.   
Regarding the "balls"....looks like you have "clevis" ends on your cables.   Morse will adapt to balls or clevis...or just a single hole for a locknut or bolt.   
The "spring valve" on top of the carb may be a bowl vent?   I must look at the pix again.  And, it may be as you state, a flood prevention device. 
With the choke setup, and lack of throttle steps, you'll probably want to stick with a mechancal throttle....cable or otherwise.  A Morse cable would replace all of the copper tubing and inner core wire.  You'll probably reuse the brackets, but will have to weld up a small mounting tab for the cables.  You can buy the "twist" locks for an outboard that would be cheap and easy to R&R the cable.  There are lots of possibilities.  Throttle won't be a problem. 
JR
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.”

Ayn Rand
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