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Author Topic: AC units?  (Read 2718 times)
Flight102C3
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« on: January 31, 2012, 06:08:33 AM »

Hi!! hows everybody doing??  Got a question about what the best AC unit would be?? I need to rought in ducts,elc.
Are all RV style AC the same for rough in??  Where would I find a site that would help me?? Thanks for now.
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Mex-Busnut
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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2012, 06:29:00 AM »

What kind of bus do you have?

Some of us wierdos are installing home-style mini-splits and keeping our roof lines cleaner and lower. Plus they cost half of what a roof top unit costs. In my case, they only draw 9 amps max, compared to 15-20 for rooftop units. Just another option for you to consider.
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Dr. Steve, San Juan del Río, Querétaro, Mexico, North America, Planet Earth, Milky Way.
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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2012, 06:47:41 AM »

The RV roof tops are 14x14 openings

good luck
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2012, 09:21:15 AM »

Some of us wierdos are installing home-style mini-splits and keeping our roof lines cleaner and lower. Plus they cost half of what a roof top unit costs. In my case, they only draw 9 amps max, compared to 15-20 for rooftop units. Just another option for you to consider.

Where are you buying mini-splits for half the cost of a roof top?  Are the prices in Mexico that lop sided because mini-splits here in the USA seem to cost around the same as a roof top.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
Flight102C3
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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2012, 09:41:28 AM »

I have a 102C3.  Don't know any thing about a mini split!! needing info about the space between roof and ceiling for the internal duct work and cold air return
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Mex-Busnut
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« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2012, 10:45:06 AM »

Where are you buying mini-splits for half the cost of a roof top?  Are the prices in Mexico that lop sided because mini-splits here in the USA seem to cost around the same as a roof top.

Here in Mexico we paid 6,300 pesos for each mini-split. These also have the heating elements installed. Each rooftop unit would cost us 14,000 pesos down here. Exchange rate is about 13.5 pesos per dollar.
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Dr. Steve, San Juan del Río, Querétaro, Mexico, North America, Planet Earth, Milky Way.
1981 Dina Olímpico (Flxible Flxliner clone), 6V92TA Detroit Diesel
Rockwell model RM135A 9-speed manual tranny.
Jake brakes
100 miles North West of Mexico City, Mexico. 6,800 feet altitude.
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« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2012, 12:58:36 PM »

I have a 102C3.  Don't know any thing about a mini split!! needing info about the space between roof and ceiling for the internal duct work and cold air return

I used to have a travel trailer with ducted A/C.  The ducts were maybe three inches tall.  I suggest finding the installation manual for a rooftop A/C and it should list the required dimensions for the duct work.  Typically the duct work is sized in square inches of area.  There is a fair bit of leeway in how wide and tall the duct work can be as long as the square inches are right.

Mini-splits require no duct work.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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jerry
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« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2012, 01:23:37 PM »

Where are you buying mini-splits for half the cost of a roof top?  Are the prices in Mexico that lop sided because mini-splits here in the USA seem to cost around the same as a roof top.

Here in Mexico we paid 6,300 pesos for each mini-split. These also have the heating elements installed. Each rooftop unit would cost us 14,000 pesos down here. Exchange rate is about 13.5 pesos per dollar.

I live in Houston and wondered where/who could I order a mini split from? Brand? more info?

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bevans6
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« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2012, 02:10:02 PM »

Steve, how many BTU's are they each, for 9 amps (at 120 volts?) and is the 9 amps for both units (evaporator and condenser?)

Brian
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« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2012, 02:59:04 PM »

As posted by Bob a while ago.....http://www.minisplitshop.com/store/home.php

HTH....Tim
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« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2012, 05:38:32 PM »

UEMJG, living in Houston should be no problem finding a Goodman mini split they are made there,huge plant they make units for all the major manufactures
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Oonrahnjay
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« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2012, 05:50:01 PM »

     Here is a section from a "single-zone" mini-split product specification:

Type    Rotary/Scroll
RLA (Amp)    4.5
LRA (Amp)    26.0

     What do the RLA (Amp) and LRA (Amp) numbers mean?
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
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« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2012, 06:07:12 PM »

I guess I should have been more clear on my request...I was replying to mex-busnut as to where in Mexico I could buy a mini-split.
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luvrbus
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« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2012, 06:09:07 PM »

Bruce

RLA= rotor locked amps (running)
FLA= full load amps  
LRA= load rated amps
good luck
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 06:22:54 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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Mex-Busnut
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« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2012, 06:58:25 PM »

I guess I should have been more clear on my request...I was replying to mex-busnut as to where in Mexico I could buy a mini-split.
Are you in Mexico? I am 100 miles North West of Mexico City. I bought them here in town. I would imagine buying them and shipping to the U. S. would cost an arm and a leg.

Here is the tag on the box. I exaggerated when I said "9 amps". They take 8.5 amps max. They are 12,000 btu each.
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Dr. Steve, San Juan del Río, Querétaro, Mexico, North America, Planet Earth, Milky Way.
1981 Dina Olímpico (Flxible Flxliner clone), 6V92TA Detroit Diesel
Rockwell model RM135A 9-speed manual tranny.
Jake brakes
100 miles North West of Mexico City, Mexico. 6,800 feet altitude.
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« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2012, 07:45:42 PM »

I'm a little confused here!  Are these even rated for RV appilcations?
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Pat

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« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2012, 04:59:33 AM »

Simple answer no: the RV rated industry doesn't build anything close to this efficient. I used them. very satisfied. My total load for ac is less than 20 amps start up and running plus I have heat also down into the single didgets (tested by me). That 20 amps is about or maybe a little more than one roof top. Plus they are so much quieter.  You must pay attention to condensate drain and use common sense and make sure the unit is set level or tilted a little toward the low end.  I prefer the 410 refrigerant system and the inverter system ones with a ser factor around 15 or over. I have not found a rating on a roof top but knowledgeable ones have guessed around  9ser.  The lowest mini-split is 11ser.  I have 3 in my 45 ft coach total cost $1450 on 100 degree day 70 inside 2 will maintain and kick off. Heat is equally impressive in the teens once warmed up one 9000 unit pulling 6.5 amps will maintain 70F.  I have 1  12000 btu unit and 2 each 9000 btu units.   Test results are my test. I am not a salesman or have any intrest other than bus building hobby.    Bob
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Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
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« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2012, 06:19:46 AM »

Here is the tag on the box.

  No multilingual tag? I'm shocked, lol
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muddog16
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« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2012, 06:33:13 AM »

If I was using common sense I wouldn't be using a unit not rated for motor homes or RV's,  what it comes down to is.........its cheap!!!! (don't confuse cheap with building with less cost) but saves you a couple of bucks......This is the extension cord argument but with ac's........I have to shake my head and laugh......  only in America!    Roll Eyes
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Pat

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« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2012, 06:51:01 AM »

I am interested to see how they hold up over time the power from generators are not really all that clean and RV parks you never know now Bob in the US may have the advantage over Steve in Mexico down there the roads are so bad it shakes the sheets off the bed for some reason to me 400 lbs psi and vibration don't mix.
I am keeping a open mind with the wait and see Bob will tell of any problems I think lol

Good to see you posting Pat I read your email everyday I am still unable to respond to it I have a hard time finding the words my friend

good luck
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zimtok
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« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2012, 07:46:32 AM »

With a Mini-Split where did you put the "outside" unit?

I would think that if you put it in a bay then you would not be able to use it as you drive unless you allow for some sort of ventilation.



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« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2012, 08:54:10 AM »

I'm not first here. They have been in use for several years in Rv Mci 8 Tin tent for at least 5 yrs.  Just more vocal.  I put condenser in front spare tire compartment  and another in old condensor compartment.. DuWayne said anchoring the lines is very important to longivity of instalation. And use soft copper. Also consulted with Nick Badame on board with instalation.  The RV industry is in a Slump now and has no insentive to change anything.  No need to follow like sheep.  I haven't used roof tops in last three conversions. Don't like noise  and poor performance .    Do it your way! I will do it mt way.   Bob
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Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
Sean
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« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2012, 09:24:36 AM »

RLA= rotor locked amps (running)
FLA= full load amps  
LRA= load rated amps

You've got a couple of those backwards, Clifford.

RLA is "Rated Load Amps"
LRA is "Locked Rotor Amps"

The RLA is, for all intents and purposes, the running draw of the appliance under maximum rated conditions.  For an air conditioner, that would be at the highest rated outside temperature with the maximum temperature delta.  That said, the RLA is not really intended to be used for performance measurement, rather, it is the number you use to specify fuse, breaker, contactor, and wiring size for the appliance.

The LRA is the maximum current that will be drawn when the rotor is locked, which is essentially the start-up current.  Fuses and breakers must be rated to accept this amount of current for short periods of time.  In the case of fuses, they are designed for a slow blow, wherein it takes a while for the fusible element to heat up to the melting temperature.  For breakers, you want to use a type designated "HACR" which stands for Hating, Air Conditioning, and Refrigeration and will have the required overcurrent time delay built in.

HTH,

-Sean
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« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2012, 09:33:47 AM »

Consider the source Sean LOL

good luck
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« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2012, 01:24:45 PM »

  With a Mini-Split where did you put the "outside" unit?   I would think that if you put it in a bay then you would not be able to use it as you drive unless you allow for some sort of ventilation.   

     You wouldn't be able to use it parked, either!
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« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2012, 02:46:49 PM »

Copper is not good for any installation subject to  vibration because it work hardens.

It is forbidden in aircraft for that reason. You don't see any copper lines in autos either.
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« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2012, 03:13:29 PM »

I pointed out anchor securly! Was one of Mci 8 tin tents points. He is a hvac professional. Really don't feel Like big argument here. I will take my chances and repair if necessary. You can use flex hoses if necessary. By the way I took    copper  lines out of my Prevosts and have done same on Mci also.  Just my way. Not sugesting anyone try experiment. Easy to call camping world. Tried and true method of the ages for 30 years. Noise very little improvements. (some but few).  The roof tops will serve your purpose! Insulate well! Buy a properly sized Gen set. Have a large battery bank for inverter use(for very short time).  The 45XLE I'm presently building had 4 each roof tops and a very large gen set before I  started it. It now has 3 Mini-split units and a 7.5 kw snall gen set. which is more equal to campground plug in power availability where we camp quiet often. I've ratteled quiet enough as it is water under bridge for me.  Good luck! Do it you way.   Bob
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« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2012, 03:21:32 PM »

It is forbidden in aircraft for that reason. You don't see any copper lines in autos either.

Not to be a smart alec, but MCI apparently didn't by into that theory. We have a bunch of long copper runs, on our coach. Both air lines, and AC. Both continue to work great. Some of the newer coaches have copper too. Apparently they didn't buy into that theory either.

Bob, thanks for sharing your insights. Sounds to me like it will work just fine. Not using copper on buses? Naw, that ain't the case. Use away, my friend.

John
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« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2012, 06:52:54 PM »

I agree with bob on the mini-splits and the use of copper.  I will be using a 2 zone mini split on my conversion as my budget allows.

If anyone has any leads as to where i could get a dual zone, inverter type mini split as a complete kit, let me know.

thx!
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« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2012, 07:22:16 PM »

Copper is not good for any installation subject to  vibration because it work hardens.

It is forbidden in aircraft for that reason. You don't see any copper lines in autos either.
Gus, you are partially correct about copper.   It is more likely to crack due to vibration that some other materials but is can be made to work.  There has been plenty of hard & soft copper tubing used by OEMs to carry both refrigerant and hot water in our coaches.  There was a pretty big pile of it, from a Prevost, behind Dad's shop at one time.  Proper installation is the key to using copper in a mobile application.  Reduce or eliminate movement where possible.  Use wide sweeping turns and loops where a small amount of movement may be needed.  I have a 1935 tractor that has copper fuel lines.  You bus will not shake like a non-balanced 4cyl engine running at 1200RPM while bouncing through plow furrows.  They solved the problem by putting a 2.5" Dia loop in the fuel line to account for vibration and movement. 
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« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2012, 05:03:35 AM »

Any copper tubing will anneal (harden) over time on it's own,you can take a brass wire brush and harden copper nature of the beast any place it rubs against another materiel it will anneal

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« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2012, 07:52:46 AM »

Copper is not good for any installation subject to  vibration because it work hardens.

It is forbidden in aircraft for that reason. You don't see any copper lines in autos either.
Good to know!  Roll Eyes You are correct though, I have never personally seen a minisplit mounted in a plane or auto. Right on! Kiss
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« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2012, 08:32:40 AM »

I agree with bob on the mini-splits and the use of copper.  I will be using a 2 zone mini split on my conversion as my budget allows.

If anyone has any leads as to where i could get a dual zone, inverter type mini split as a complete kit, let me know.

thx!

The dual zone mini splits are all 240 volt.
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« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2012, 03:25:35 PM »

Well, actually annealing is softening. This can be done with copper by heating and plunging into cold water or oil, either works well.

Yep, there is lots of copper in GM buses too but they all have numerous flex couplings to allow for it.

Not saying it shouldn't be done, just saying it needs to be done with hardening in mind.
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« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2012, 04:21:53 PM »

Where are you buying mini-splits for half the cost of a roof top?  Are the prices in Mexico that lop sided because mini-splits here in the USA seem to cost around the same as a roof top.

Here in Mexico we paid 6,300 pesos for each mini-split. These also have the heating elements installed. Each rooftop unit would cost us 14,000 pesos down here. Exchange rate is about 13.5 pesos per dollar.

That sounds like a really good deal. Do you like the quality of the units? Thier web site is in spanish. I wonder if they ship internationally?
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