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Author Topic: Replace Engine -- Good one?  (Read 4331 times)
luvrbus
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« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2012, 06:30:24 AM »

Bruce, I know you don't want a electronic engine but the Gov is selling some new 330 hp C-7 Cat engines in Huntsville Al that will work nice in your space right now they are at 1000 bucks each they will probably sell for around 4 grand  lasts one did not a  bad price for a 30,000 dollar new engine complete
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 06:39:03 AM by luvrbus » Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
Oonrahnjay
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« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2012, 10:48:45 AM »

Thanks, Clifford.  I'll do a Google search on that.   330 Hp is a bit more than my transmission and drive shaft is designed for - any way to limit that kind of Hp?   Also, would I have to source that "electronic components" (ECM, readouts, etc.) separately?

Appreciate the help,  BH   NC   
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
1976 Daimler (British) Double-Decker Bus; 34' long
6-cyl, 4-stroke, Leyland O-680 engine

(New Email -- brucebearnc@ (theGoogle gmail place) .com)
Oonrahnjay
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« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2012, 11:02:17 AM »

    Just so everyone is clear about the length restriction that I'm working with here, this is a diagram of the engine layout on my bus:

http://s45.photobucket.com/albums/f60/oonrahnjay/Bus/?action=view&current=EngLayout.jpg



    As you can see, it's a crossways mounted engine, going into the transmission which has a 90-degree output into the drive shaft. 
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
1976 Daimler (British) Double-Decker Bus; 34' long
6-cyl, 4-stroke, Leyland O-680 engine

(New Email -- brucebearnc@ (theGoogle gmail place) .com)
luvrbus
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« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2012, 11:40:40 AM »

You can drop the HP Bruce I think standard is 220 hp and they come with the ECM ,starter,alternator and air compressor

good luck
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Oonrahnjay
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« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2012, 12:09:43 PM »

  You can drop the HP Bruce I think standard is 220 hp and they come with the ECM ,starter,alternator and air compressor     
good luck 

       Thanks so much for your help.  220 Hp (and about 550-580 Ft/lb of torque) will fit about perfect on the transmission and other parts of the drive train.  Appreciate it,  BH
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
1976 Daimler (British) Double-Decker Bus; 34' long
6-cyl, 4-stroke, Leyland O-680 engine

(New Email -- brucebearnc@ (theGoogle gmail place) .com)
TomC
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« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2012, 11:21:13 PM »

The Cummins 5.9 liter mechanical/electronic and the 6.7 liter electronic are both the same block size.  The 5.9 liter with the inline mechanical fuel injection pump (run from the rotary electronic fuel injection pump) is the most reliable.  You can easily get 250hp and 520lb/ft torque.  The 6.7 liter electronic can go as high as 325hp and 800lb/ft torque, but-it is relatively new-probably not to much in the way of junk yard availability.  The 8.3/8.9 liter, can be gotton with a full Jake brake.  Any of these engines can have an exhaust brake added also (but not in addition to the Jake Brake).  If you can find a mechanical 8.3 liter with the inline fuel injection pump-that would be my choice.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Oonrahnjay
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« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2012, 06:50:13 AM »

The Cummins 5.9 liter mechanical/electronic and the 6.7 liter electronic are both the same block size.  The 5.9 liter with the inline mechanical fuel injection pump (run from the rotary electronic fuel injection pump) is the most reliable.  You can easily get 250hp and 520lb/ft torque.  The 6.7 liter electronic can go as high as 325hp and 800lb/ft torque, but-it is relatively new-probably not to much in the way of junk yard availability.  The 8.3/8.9 liter, can be gotton with a full Jake brake.  Any of these engines can have an exhaust brake added also (but not in addition to the Jake Brake).  If you can find a mechanical 8.3 liter with the inline fuel injection pump-that would be my choice.  Good Luck, TomC

      Thanks, Tom; is the 8.3 8.3 overall length within the 42-44" maximum that will fit?   Once source says that it's 44.5" which should work OK but there isn't much info on these "out of date" (i.e. pre-electronic) engines.
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
1976 Daimler (British) Double-Decker Bus; 34' long
6-cyl, 4-stroke, Leyland O-680 engine

(New Email -- brucebearnc@ (theGoogle gmail place) .com)
Uglydog56
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« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2012, 10:11:59 AM »

A lot of people are poo-pooing the mechanical 5.9, but I wouldn't rule it out.  I know more than one person with the "bad" pickup engines in dodge dually's pulling 3 car slant trailers which puts you in the 25K weight range for hundreds of thousands of miles without issues at way more than 59mph.  While they are not OTR truck engines, they will do what you are asking, especially since you aren't going to be turning it up at all.  I borrowed my friend Dan's Dodge pickup to go get a bunch of stuff from the military surplus place in Ogden UT (my dually has a 502 and gets 8 empty, 7 loaded).  I was over 18K with truck & trailer & stuff, never had to shift out of 6th on the grades, pulled at 70, and got 10.2mpg loaded which he said was the worst he's ever seen economy-wise.
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Rick A. Cone
Silverdale, WA
66 Crowny Crown "The Ark"
Oonrahnjay
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« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2012, 10:16:17 AM »

  A lot of people are poo-pooing the mechanical 5.9, but I wouldn't rule it out.  I know more than one person with the "bad" pickup engines in dodge dually's pulling 3 car slant trailers which puts you in the 25K weight range for hundreds of thousands of miles without issues at way more than 59mph.  While they are not OTR truck engines, they will do what you are asking, especially since you aren't going to be turning it up at all.  I borrowed my friend Dan's Dodge pickup to go get a bunch of stuff from the military surplus place in Ogden UT (my dually has a 502 and gets 8 empty, 7 loaded).  I was over 18K with truck & trailer & stuff, never had to shift out of 6th on the grades, pulled at 70, and got 10.2mpg loaded which he said was the worst he's ever seen economy-wise.

    Thanks, Rick, that's a good recommendation.  I'll consider it but this is a job that I only intend to do once.  Thanks,  BH
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
1976 Daimler (British) Double-Decker Bus; 34' long
6-cyl, 4-stroke, Leyland O-680 engine

(New Email -- brucebearnc@ (theGoogle gmail place) .com)
Hard Headed Ken
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1988 Prevost Angola Conversion Repowered With 14L Series 60 & Eaton Ultrashift


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« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2012, 12:57:53 PM »

 I'm not a crazed fan of the 5.9, but I have one in my rollback. A 12 valve P-pump mechanical 5.9 with 300,000 + miles. Iím running the 280 HP Torque plate, Hybrid HX35 turbo with HX40 compressor housing and wheel. The fuel rate has some adjustment on those engines and I have set mine to run 34 PSI of boost and 1200 degrees on the exhaust temp on a long hard pull (according to all information I could find that is the safe maximum) . My truck weighs 16,000 lbs empty, it's usually loaded (one way) with 6000 lbs, 10,000 is not uncommon. It does great with 6000 lbs, OK with 10,000 lbs. I occasionally move 8x8x20 shipping containers that weigh 5000 lbs, they fell like 10,000 because of the wind drag. I always get between 10 and 11 miles to the gallon. I just wanted to pass along my experience. I thought about putting 2 of them in Prevost instead of the Series 60.

Ken
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TomC
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« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2012, 03:16:05 PM »

The main difference between the normal 5.9 liter truck/bus engine and the 5.9 that was installed in the Dodge pickup, is the Dodge 5.9 has a smaller oil pan to lower the engine down.  The extra oil of the normal truck/bus engine would be advantageous.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Oonrahnjay
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« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2012, 04:39:36 PM »

  The main difference between the normal 5.9 liter truck/bus engine and the 5.9 that was installed in the Dodge pickup, is the Dodge 5.9 has a smaller oil pan to lower the engine down.  The extra oil of the normal truck/bus engine would be advantageous.  Good Luck, TomC   

     If I were to go with the 5.9 and the best price was on a Dodge 5.9, would the bigger oil pan fit right on it?
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
1976 Daimler (British) Double-Decker Bus; 34' long
6-cyl, 4-stroke, Leyland O-680 engine

(New Email -- brucebearnc@ (theGoogle gmail place) .com)
opus
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« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2012, 05:21:57 PM »

To add to that, I would try and find a 12 valve engine.
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Hard Headed Ken
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« Reply #43 on: February 23, 2012, 05:32:17 PM »

I just measured a Series 50 that have in my shop. It's 44 inches from the front of the fan to back of the engine, that doesn't include the bell housing. I took the same measurement on 5.9 and it's 40 inches.

I don't mean to recommend a 5.9 for you, looking at the front of your bus you have a lot of wind resistance to overcome. Probably even more than me when I'm hauling a container because I have the truck hood. I just wanted to put the information out so it help you make a decision. I think the 5.9 would be working very hard for you all the time not just half the time like in my case. I would probably want something with more HP and torque.

Since I have my list handy here's the list of wires you need up front (vehicle harness) for a Detroit III or IV.
Check engine Light, Shut Down Light, Shut down override / diagnostic request, Service brake released, Park brake released, Cruise Resume / Accelerate, Cruise enable, Cruise set / coast, Clutch switch, 3 for your throttle (best if twisted), Ignition on, Tachometer output, Engine brake low, Engine brake medium, a twisted pair for the diagnostic port and you'll need a speed sensor input into the ECM. I don't think I left anything out. It would probably be about the same for any electronic engine.  Now that's too bad is it??
 
Edit - Don't forget about the room needed for the charge air cooler any late model diesel needs it. A stacked system like the transits use maybe a little thinner.
Ken
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 07:33:42 PM by Hard Headed Ken » Logged

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Oonrahnjay
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« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2012, 07:30:27 PM »

I just measured a Series 50 that have in my shop. It's 44 inches from the front of the fan to back of the engine, that doesn't include the bell housing. I took the same measurement on 5.9 and it's 40 inches.

I don't mean to recommend a 5.9 for you, looking at the front of your bus you have a lot of wind resistance to overcome. Probably even more than me when I'm hauling a container because I have the truck hood. I just wanted to put the information out so it help you make a decision. I think the 5.9 would be working very hard for you all the time not just half the time like in my case. I would probably want something with more HP and torque.

Since I have my list handy here's the list of wires you need up front (vehicle harness) for a Detroit III or IV.
Check engine Light, Shut Down Light, Shut down override / diagnostic request, Service brake released, Park brake released, Cruise Resume / Accelerate, Cruise enable, Cruise set / coast, Clutch switch, 3 for your throttle (best if twisted), Ignition on, Tachometer output, Engine brake low, Engine brake medium, a twisted pair for the diagnostic port and you'll need a speed sensor input into the ECM. I don't think I left anything out. It would probably be about the same for any electronic engine.  Now that's too bad is it??

Ken

     Yes, Ken, I do have a large (and very flat) frontal area.  I have recently completed some big jobs on the bus (generator, water system tank install) and I need to get an uptodate weight on it (before I started removing seats, doors, etc. it was a bit over 18K pounds). 
     The list of items is a bit daunting but unless there's a particularly trickly part of installing or calibration, it doesn't look like things that can't be overcome.
     I have always thought that the 5.9 in pickup trim wouldn't be up to what I need but actually, it would be nice to be proven wrong.  My current transmission internal gearing and rear end means that a replacement engine should not make more than about 2200-2250 Rpm at cruising speed - this is another factor and my impression of the pickup engines is that they're tuned for a wider powerband and more Rpm's.
     It's very kind of you to measure engines for me; this is one of my most important factors.   Many thanks for all your consideration on this,  BH
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
1976 Daimler (British) Double-Decker Bus; 34' long
6-cyl, 4-stroke, Leyland O-680 engine

(New Email -- brucebearnc@ (theGoogle gmail place) .com)
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