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Author Topic: Typical HP of a Detroit V-6-92  (Read 3001 times)
Kwajdiver
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« on: February 25, 2012, 06:31:48 PM »

Hello All,

What is the typical horse power of a 1983 x-hound Detroit V-6-92.

Thank you,

Bill
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« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2012, 08:00:42 PM »

MCI's specifications for the MC9 state 277 HP, but these specs were from the time that 8V71s were "standard", with the 6V92 an option:
http://www.bustropolis.com/files/download/MC-9%20Specs.pdf
Were Greyhound's buses different?

John
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« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2012, 09:28:04 PM »

Don't believe Greyhound was different, but not sure.  This turbo charged also.
I see 277hp in the book, but is that turbo charged.

Bill
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« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2012, 10:35:52 PM »

Were there any non-turbo 6V92s in bus/truck use?

Some 6V92TA were as low as 253 HP http://www.flickr.com/photos/23546986@N08/5959516820/#in/photostream/, others (including my Californicated version) were 277 HP, and RV- and firetruck-rated engines were well over 300 HP.

John
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« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2012, 01:25:43 AM »

Bill -

277 is correct for your engine, as were the majority of 6V92TAs installed in coaches.

Operators are more interested in fuel mileage than HP - still true today.

Seems like only busnuts have Tim "The Tool Man" Syndrome!

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2012, 04:23:53 AM »

http://www.powerlinecomponents.com/literature/detroit_diesel/brochures/6v92ta-tta_automotive.pdf

Interesting.  The "fuel squeezer" had a governor that capped the HP at a certain amount - 270 hp - but the engine had the same injectors as the 335 hp version and produced the same HP up to the RPM where the restriction started.  If your engine is the "fuel squeezer", I'd be interested to figure out how to tamper with the "tamper resistant governor"
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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2012, 04:52:10 AM »

 That is easy one Brian  a 1/2 in drill bit a few minutes you are there they just have plugs with a roll pin covering the 2 bolts to remove the adjustment cover nothing special,the ones I cannot get too with a drill or punch a torch blows the little plug out doesn't hurt anything.FWIW Allison made the FS 740 to use with that engine 

good luck  
« Last Edit: February 26, 2012, 05:12:50 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2012, 08:43:41 AM »

That is easy one Brian  a 1/2 in drill bit a few minutes you are there they just have plugs with a roll pin covering the 2 bolts to remove the adjustment cover nothing special,the ones I cannot get too with a drill or punch a torch blows the little plug out doesn't hurt anything.FWIW Allison made the FS 740 to use with that engine good luck

Do tell us more Clifford...? Where is this? What doth it look like? And in baby language how can we tamper with it? Definitely interested in this...
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Scott & Heather
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« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2012, 08:45:09 AM »

That Detroit brochure is from the early 80's-around the time I bought my 1980 Kenworth K100C 86" Aerodyne cabover with 151" wheelbase so I could legal a 45ft trailer and be at 55ft (old length laws).  I remember also the 100,000mi oil change-that was changed back to 25,000mi oil change with one filter change at 12,000mi.  DON'T do the 100,000mi oil change as stated in the brochure.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2012, 08:49:00 AM »

That 100000 mile oil change is in my 71 series service manual. I thought it was a typo. I never believed it.

JC
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« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2012, 10:45:21 AM »

That is easy one Brian  a 1/2 in drill bit a few minutes you are there they just have plugs with a roll pin covering the 2 bolts to remove the adjustment cover nothing special,the ones I cannot get too with a drill or punch a torch blows the little plug out doesn't hurt anything.FWIW Allison made the FS 740 to use with that engine good luck

Do tell us more Clifford...? Where is this? What doth it look like? And in baby language how can we tamper with it? Definitely interested in this...

I love when I get a reason to read a new part of a Detroit engine manual...   Grin

On a mechanical V71 engine (I presume the same on other mechanical engines, but I don't really know) there is a cover that is held on with two 5/16" bolts that nestles down along the vee of the engine off the back of the governor.  You take that cover off and you can see the high speed and low speed adjustments.  What you have to understand about the governor is that it's basically balancing weights against springs to control the fuel rods that tell the injectors how much fuel to inject, and those springs are inside that cover.  That is where you can set the high idle (no-load maximum speed) and low idle speed when you do a tune up by adjusting the tension and pre-load of those springs.  On a TT Fuel Squeezer engine there are a couple of Belleville springs (that look like dished washers) that come into play to back out the fuel rod when a certain RPM has been exceeded.  Those Belleville springs interact with the high speed spring to have the effect of letting the engine run and act like a high HP engine below that RPM, but set at a certain HP level above it.  When you do a tune up on a TT engine, you back off the preload on those Belleville springs, do the tune up, then you reset the preload on the Belleville springs to reduce the HP to the level you want.  If you want full HP, you just leave the preload backed off, or presumably just remove the springs.  It's a pretty easy thing to do, so they made the cover tamper proof so the first driver to get assigned the truck didn't adjust the power to maximum...

Brian
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« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2012, 10:59:36 AM »

Briandefinitely interested in checking this out. I am much less concerned about fuel economy and much more interested in "squeezing" out a bit more power from my coach cheaply. I'm going to investigate. Any pics/drawings along with that very nicely written tutorial? Sorry for the thread hijackishness...back on topic, um...oh yeah, horsepower...um, my horsepower is low...according to "seat feel" so I'm attempting to resolve that issue. (did that get it back on track?)
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Scott & Heather
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« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2012, 11:17:16 AM »

Scott, I presume you have a mechanical 6V92 since it's a 1984 model year.  When you look at your engine, there is probably a 1/4" thick metal plate bolted on top of the governor, and that's where the air cylinders for the fast idle, the engine stop, and the throttle cable would be mounted.  The spring cover is under that metal plate on the back of the governor, between the valve cover and the blower, sticking out towards the front of the bus/rear of the engine.  The cover is about an inch and a quarter in diameter, about 4 inches long, and there are two bolts that hold it on.  It's possible but a total PITA to work on the adjustments when that metal plate is bolted on, so I take the plate off, move it out of the way, then I can get at the adjustments.  All you would have to do is take the cover off and look.  There are excellent diagrams and such in the Detroit engine manual, so you should get one as a starting point if you are going to try to fool with this stuff yourself.  As always the warning - it's easy to over-speed the engine and blow it up if you screw up the governor, so don't fool with it if you aren't pretty bloody sure you know what you are doing!

Brian
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« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2012, 11:26:42 AM »

Got it. Yes, definitely heard the horror stories of messing with the governor so I'll be sure to steer clear of it. Sad thing is, I just had that plate off and everything apart about a month ago while I was unseizing my engine stop lever (washer corroded and seized in the "off" position). Had no idea I might find the squeezer in there. I do not have the engine manual...only my coach (MCI) manual. I'll see if there is a download somewhere for that. Thanks for the online help on this. I am definitely going to play...carefully of course. See if I can boost the HP numbers a little (keeping this thread on course)  Embarrassed
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Scott & Heather
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« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2012, 11:31:32 AM »

This MC9 manual suggests that you may have a two speed governor with no TT stuff.  Personally I wouldn't worry about this at all, and wait till I found myself parked next to an expert...

http://www.buses101.com/PDF_Files/MCI%209%20Maint%20Manual%20in%20PDF%20format/MC-9%20-%20Maint%20Manual%20Section%208.pdf

Brian
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Gary '79 5C
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« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2012, 12:54:26 AM »

Interesting.  The "fuel squeezer" had a governor that capped the HP at a certain amount - 270 hp - but the engine had the same injectors as the 335 hp version and produced the same HP up to the RPM where the restriction started.  If your engine is the "fuel squeezer", I'd be interested to figure out how to tamper with the "tamper resistant governor"

So, With a 6V92TA w/ 92 injectors, Could a poorman's fuel squeezer be keeping his foot out of it ??
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« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2012, 04:20:50 AM »

Gary, I honestly don't know.  Obviously not using full throttle is one way to save fuel, but the governor on our engines is not a direct link between foot and throttle plate the way it is on a carburettor.  The control is more of a speed control lever on top of the governor, and the governor springs and settings decide how much fuel to inject based on speed, load, accelerating, decelerating etc.  You can have full movement/full fuel  on the injectors but not have your foot all the way down - I think

The TT Fuel Squeezer backs off the full rack setting after a certain RPM has been exceeded.  It's variable, so it's almost like the injector size is being altered to cap the amount of fuel being injected to only that which will create a certain amount of HP.  This will have the effect of enticing the driver to drive at lower RPM's and shift earlier - the engine is unrestricted up to the RPM level, so it acts great, it just hits that wall at 1500 rpm so you may as well shift up and get back into the torque curve.

Brian
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« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2012, 07:51:16 AM »

Scott, and anyone else even thinking about messing with the "govnah"...one of the great tricks I picked up from working with Clifford the bus guru, aka "luvrbus" is this: if you mess with anything that has to do with the governor or fuel control rods, pull a valve cover and attach a set of vise grips to the fuel rod lever. This way you can control the fuel rods separately from the governor in case of a bad adjustment. good insurance I think.
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« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2012, 08:27:17 AM »

I haven't set a "TT Fuel Squeezer" with the Belleville spring washers since I worked for Detroit Diesel 30 years ago, but as I recall you set the engine to a lower top rpm using the washer assembly.  The way it worked was that as the engine was climbing a hill, the Belleville washers would compress and allow the governor more travel (fuel) so that you would slowly get up to full rack rather than getting it right away as you would driving with the regular governor high speed spring.  The truck drivers hated the TT engines so we would just adjust the no-load rpm to 2300 using the big nut which would leave the Belleville washers sitting all alone on the adjustment threads without messing with them or removing them.

Also, I don't don't know what the Greyhound engines were set at horsepowerwise, but the charter buses of that era were all set at 335 HP with G85 injectors.

--Geoff
General Diesel Service
Prescott, AZ
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 08:38:12 AM by Geoff » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2012, 11:51:37 AM »

Scott, and anyone else even thinking about messing with the "govnah"...one of the great tricks I picked up from working with Clifford the bus guru, aka "luvrbus" is this: if you mess with anything that has to do with the governor or fuel control rods, pull a valve cover and attach a set of vise grips to the fuel rod lever. This way you can control the fuel rods separately from the governor in case of a bad adjustment. good insurance I think.

Thanks for the tip on that. I am no sure I'll tackle this immediately...I have visions of a runaway in my head and I can't get a clipboard over the intake fast enough  Undecided
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Scott & Heather
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« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2012, 01:57:55 PM »


Thanks for the tip on that. I am no sure I'll tackle this immediately...I have visions of a runaway in my head and I can't get a clipboard over the intake fast enough  Undecided

Detroits don't "run away", they overspeed. Running away is what most people would do as the DD begins to overspeed...while the well seasoned DD mechanic calmly reaches in and blocks off the air intake. Grin Grin Grin
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« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2012, 03:30:52 PM »

got it.  overspeed...ahha..and i must say that i was tempted the other day to "run away" when i was working on the engine stop lever and i had the return spring for the throttle removed, and i pulled the throttle lever and of course it stayed there...at full throttle. no exhaust...coming right out of the manifold... Shocked two strokes are loud beasts...wow...hurt my ears even with full cover sound muffs on! but instead of running away, i calmly...ok that's a lie...i nervously reached into the belly of the beast and manually pushed the throttle lever back into idle position. and the roar calmed to a rumble...which was still loud. So, I'm not quite yet feeling the desire to adjust my horsepower by messing with the fuel squeezer...not just yet.
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Scott & Heather
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http://www.scottmichaelbennett.com/p/our-bus.html
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« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2012, 04:28:46 AM »

It's possible for a DD to "run away" or "overspeed" if there becomes an 'adequate' alternate source of fuel - such as a blower seal leak  Smiley . Taking the 'air' out of the equation is still the answer .
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 04:32:38 AM by NoRivets » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2012, 10:14:42 AM »

http://www.powerlinecomponents.com/literature/detroit_diesel/brochures/6v92ta-tta_automotive.pdf
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« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2012, 11:29:55 AM »



Instant replay! Brian posted that link on page one of this thread  Wink
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Scott & Heather
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http://www.scottmichaelbennett.com/p/our-bus.html
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« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2012, 12:58:07 PM »

 Grin
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« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2012, 01:22:17 PM »

Maybe I just discovered who is ignoring me!   Grin Grin Grin

Brian
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« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2012, 03:46:00 PM »

 Grin Wink
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« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2012, 09:08:58 PM »

Maybe I just discovered who is ignoring me!   Grin Grin Grin

Brian

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But I don't clic on every link,I just read and seek.
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