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Author Topic: 14 liter Series 60 in 1988 Prevost  (Read 4310 times)
Hard Headed Ken
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1988 Prevost Angola Conversion Repowered With 14L Series 60 & Eaton Ultrashift


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« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2012, 08:19:49 AM »

What is this engine set at?  500hp?


The HP setting shows 490, but my ECM software has been modified and it should be producing more HP. When I'm finished tuning it I'll get it dynoed for an accurate HP / Torque number. Here is a link to what I shooting for.

SIZE MATTERS - Semi Truck Drift Gymkhana Feature


Hey Ken how long did it take you to make all of those changes?  I enjoy work like this, you can tell how much thought you put into everything.....excellant work!!!!


How long did it take?? Way too long. About 10 months at maybe 30 to 40 hours a week.

     Really nice work, Ken.  I'm staring right down both barrels of having to install an engine in a bus not designed for it, so I'm *very* interested in the issues you had to deal with and how you overcame any problems.


Your are in for many hours of work. Have you considered transplanting the complete drive train from a transit bus with a "V" drive? You have a lot of work ahead of you anyway, with a transit bus drive train parts might be easier to find.

« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 08:27:24 AM by Hard Headed Ken » Logged

Link to my engine swap slide show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxAFFBcoTQI
uncle ned
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« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2012, 08:48:44 AM »



Ken  I may not be able to drift and spin the tires with him but a can put out black smoke with the best of them.

uncle ned

have a good day.  headed down to the sandlaper this weekend.  come on down.
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4104's forever
6v92 v730
Huggy Bear
Hard Headed Ken
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1988 Prevost Angola Conversion Repowered With 14L Series 60 & Eaton Ultrashift


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« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2012, 09:10:12 AM »



Ken  I may not be able to drift and spin the tires with him but a can put out black smoke with the best of them.

uncle ned

have a good day.  headed down to the sandlaper this weekend.  come on down.

I think a he's a black smoke amateur. You and Huggy could be 12 time world champions at making black smoke. I think my 04 would always be 2nd to yours.
The Sandlapper sounds like fun but I still have work to do.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 09:14:06 AM by Hard Headed Ken » Logged

Link to my engine swap slide show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxAFFBcoTQI
Oonrahnjay
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« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2012, 09:59:47 AM »

(snip)  Have you considered transplanting the complete drive train from a transit bus with a "V" drive? You have a lot of work ahead of you anyway, with a transit bus drive train parts might be easier to find. 

   yes, I have thought about this and it would offer many advantages (probably better gearing, better choices of rear axle, etc.).  I haven't rejected it and in fact, it's high on my list of possible ways to go (although a NA-type V-drive would mean MAJOR mods to my rear chassis).  But yes, I agree, it would offer lots of advantages.
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
1976 Daimler (British) Double-Decker Bus; 34' long
6-cyl, 4-stroke, Leyland O-680 engine

(New Email -- brucebearnc@ (theGoogle gmail place) .com)
morefire
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« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2012, 04:26:41 PM »

What is this engine set at?  500hp?


The HP setting shows 490, but my ECM software has been modified and it should be producing more HP. When I'm finished tuning it I'll get it dynoed for an accurate HP / Torque number. Here is a link to what I shooting for.

SIZE MATTERS - Semi Truck Drift Gymkhana Feature

Hey Ken how long did it take you to make all of those changes?  I enjoy work like this, you can tell how much thought you put into everything.....excellant work!!!!


How long did it take?? Way too long. About 10 months at maybe 30 to 40 hours a week.

     Really nice work, Ken.  I'm staring right down both barrels of having to install an engine in a bus not designed for it, so I'm *very* interested in the issues you had to deal with and how you overcame any problems.


Your are in for many hours of work. Have you considered transplanting the complete drive train from a transit bus with a "V" drive? You have a lot of work ahead of you anyway, with a transit bus drive train parts might be easier to find.





Thats actually a cool video!  Gotta LOVE HP!!! Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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David G
Toronto, Ontario
2009 Bluebird 40' Coach
Cummins ISX-675HP!!
luvrbus
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« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2012, 05:08:25 PM »

Cole runs his 14L series 60 in his Eagle at 650 hp and can change the HP on the go from the drivers seat his economy mode is 550 hp 

good luck
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morefire
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« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2012, 06:21:27 PM »

Cole runs his 14L series 60 in his Eagle at 650 hp and can change the HP on the go from the drivers seat his economy mode is 550 hp 

good luck

Did he upgrade the pistons and use a bigger turbo, or just turned up the computer?
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David G
Toronto, Ontario
2009 Bluebird 40' Coach
Cummins ISX-675HP!!
Hard Headed Ken
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1988 Prevost Angola Conversion Repowered With 14L Series 60 & Eaton Ultrashift


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« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2012, 07:17:37 PM »



Did he upgrade the pistons and use a bigger turbo, or just turned up the computer?
[/quote]

You have do all that plus some. For example I have 630 HP 1800 ft lb torque program from a 14 liter off road engine. I can program my ECM with this program. Then you can use DDL or discrete inputs (a switch on the dash) to select the 630 HP rating, that doesn't mean it actually has 630 HP, it just says 630. Why you say. When I compare the related parts in my serial number to the off road serial number the off road engine has injectors with more flow. When I compare the pulse width tables in the two programs the off road engine has a slightly longer pulse width than my engine.  My engine would have more HP with this off road program but not 630 HP unless I change all related parts in my engine to ones used in the off road engine.

Ken
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 07:37:35 PM by Hard Headed Ken » Logged

Link to my engine swap slide show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxAFFBcoTQI
luvrbus
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« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2012, 07:46:13 PM »

Cole runs marine pistons in his 14L,different turbo, different cams, different rods, a lot of different things he uses a marine ECM programmed with Jakes and cruise he knows how to get it done he was VP of Stewart and Stevenson 
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Live each day like it was your last,one day it will be
Hard Headed Ken
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1988 Prevost Angola Conversion Repowered With 14L Series 60 & Eaton Ultrashift


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« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2012, 07:59:07 PM »

Cole runs marine pistons in his 14L,different turbo, different cams, different rods, a lot of different things he uses a marine ECM programmed with Jakes and cruise he knows how to get it done he was VP of Stewart and Stevenson 

Cole has done it correctly. I just wanted everyone who is interested in this subject to know that you can't always get an extra 100 or 200 HP increase with just a program change.   

Ken
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Link to my engine swap slide show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxAFFBcoTQI
morefire
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« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2012, 03:59:21 AM »

Cole runs marine pistons in his 14L,different turbo, different cams, different rods, a lot of different things he uses a marine ECM programmed with Jakes and cruise he knows how to get it done he was VP of Stewart and Stevenson 

Cole has done it correctly. I just wanted everyone who is interested in this subject to know that you can't always get an extra 100 or 200 HP increase with just a program change.   

Ken

Thats why I asked Wink   HP isn't cheap Undecided
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David G
Toronto, Ontario
2009 Bluebird 40' Coach
Cummins ISX-675HP!!
belfert
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« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2012, 04:36:49 AM »

The HP setting shows 490, but my ECM software has been modified and it should be producing more HP. When I'm finished tuning it I'll get it dynoed for an accurate HP / Torque number. Here is a link to what I shooting for.
Who modified your ECM for you?  Detroit dealers will only go strictly by the program intended for the engine serial number.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
Hard Headed Ken
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1988 Prevost Angola Conversion Repowered With 14L Series 60 & Eaton Ultrashift


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« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2012, 06:44:48 AM »


Who modified your ECM for you?  Detroit dealers will only go strictly by the program intended for the engine serial number.
[/quote]

The programming changes were not done by a Detroit Dealer. The software the dealers use and most programmers use outside of the dealerships is called DRS or DDRS (Detroit Reprogramming System). DRS is limited to factory settings thatís why I made my earlier post. With DRS you can install a high horse power program in a lower horse power engine but it may not produce the stated HP because it doesnít have the correct factory parts designed for the higher HP engine program or it may have the correct parts, you have to compare all the related parts between the two engine serial numbers. My initial program modifications were done by a friend and I'll be making changes as I determine the best settings for fuel economy and power. Because of an agreement with my friend I canít reveal at lot of information about the software. The software he is using very complex, itís more like what the chip tuners use in high performance automobiles. With this software you can actually increase the HP and torque at least 100 HP or more without changing cams, turbos, injectors, and pistons. Donít forget big horsepower from stock components has a cost besides fuel, that why itís better to use all the right stuff like Cole did. The truck in video that has 1900 HP was tuned with this type of software and with an experienced tuner or it could have been done by a tuner that works for Detroit since he seems to have some factory support. If anyone needs a special tune I want to clear with my friend before I give out his contact information.

Ken
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Link to my engine swap slide show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxAFFBcoTQI
Hard Headed Ken
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1988 Prevost Angola Conversion Repowered With 14L Series 60 & Eaton Ultrashift


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« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2012, 06:50:36 AM »

Here's my last set of pictures from the engine swap. These pictures don't cover every step but you can get a rough ideal of the things I made, rebuilt or modified when you watch both slide shows.

Ken

2nd half pictures 14 Liter in 1988 Prevost
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 06:54:32 AM by Hard Headed Ken » Logged

Link to my engine swap slide show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxAFFBcoTQI
luvrbus
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« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2012, 07:12:33 AM »

What some don't realize is there are different grades of 60 series the off road ECM and software for the DDEC will let you get outside the box on those engines.
The dealers use the EPA setting the risk  of going beyond that is something they won't do checking a new engine some versions won't let you do any changes till the warranty is released from DD on ECM
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Live each day like it was your last,one day it will be
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