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Author Topic: 14 liter Series 60 in 1988 Prevost  (Read 4368 times)
Hard Headed Ken
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1988 Prevost Angola Conversion Repowered With 14L Series 60 & Eaton Ultrashift


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« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2012, 07:31:28 AM »

What some don't realize is there are different grades of 60 series the off road ECM and software for the DDEC will let you get outside the box on those engines.
The dealers use the EPA setting the risk  of going beyond that is something they won't do checking a new engine some versions won't let you do any changes till the warranty is released from DD on ECM

I agree, the dealers are bound by EPA regulations (they actually apply to everyone) and cannot take a chance on violating EPA rules. As you know there several design levels even for on road 12.7's, BK, GK, PK etc. You might get away with 550 / 600 HP on a BK or PK but probably not on a GK.

Ken
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garhawk
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« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2012, 08:41:17 AM »

Hi Ken,

That's a big change from when I last saw that engine!  Great work!
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gary t'berry
Eagle Mod 20 DD ser 60 w/slide
GMC RTS 102"  40er (in progress)
Don Fairchild
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« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2012, 09:52:07 AM »

you also have to know the serial number for the Jake brakes, they have to be matched to the camshaft. There are four diffrent Jake set ups for the 60 series engines and if you put the wrong one on it you wont like the results.

Don
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uncle ned
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« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2012, 10:46:50 AM »


Don  I remember the first time I met Ken at Jarra Smiths.  He said that is one smart kid.

That was about 15 years ago.

From the looks of his work I believe he was right. If I could put you two together what a pair we would have. Then through in Clifford.

uncle ned
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4104's forever
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Hard Headed Ken
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« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2012, 11:31:12 AM »

Ned,
 If you put me with Don it could possible make him dumber. Clifford has forgoten more than I know and I don't think he has forgotten very much.

15 years? Maybe closer to 20.

Ken
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Don Fairchild
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« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2012, 11:02:39 AM »

I don't know Ned, from what I see i would have to step up my game about 6 or 8 notches. I'm not even in the same ball park as Ken.

Don

P.S. I just put a couple try tips on the BBQ how long would it take you to get here. LOL

Looking forward to Bk's this year.
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Zeroclearance
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« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2012, 03:45:36 PM »

Ken you have done a great job.

It looks like you spent the time mounting a automatic tensioner to your gearbox to fan sepentine and got rid of the Prevost air bags..    Are you running the Prevost fan clutch or modded truck clutch?   

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Hard Headed Ken
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« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2012, 07:42:22 PM »

Ken you have done a great job.

It looks like you spent the time mounting a automatic tensioner to your gearbox to fan sepentine and got rid of the Prevost air bags..    Are you running the Prevost fan clutch or modded truck clutch?   



Thanks for the complement. You are correct. I used the Horton fan clutch from the truck and added what Horton calls a "Two Speed Option". When the air is off the clutch is locked. With Horton's 2 speed, when air is applied the fan is driven by magnets and runs about half speed, there is no off. I didn't really like Prevost's airbag setup and with the truck fan I couldn't use it because the clutch is locked when no air is in the system. With the airbags, no air in the system means no tension on the belts, they would slip or be thrown off. I built a mount, welded it to the fan mount and used a spring tensioner from a another Detroit engine for the serpentine belt and I used the original air cylinder tensioner from the 8V92 for the V belts. It has a spring inside that provides some tension until air pressure comes up.


Ken
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Zeroclearance
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« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2012, 08:01:08 PM »

How is the ECU activating the 2 speed control?   Instead of electric coils you have a air supply with solinoid?   The Prevost drive system is a mess.   I liked everything that you did.   I had my system all apart this past summer.   The front drive mount off my engine was cracked.   I have blown out the rear bag twice already in three years..   Prevost has a upgrade with larger bags and larger fan clutch at $4K..   I have seen the damage on failed clutches with the blades spun right into your radiator.   


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Hard Headed Ken
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« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2012, 08:36:43 PM »

The ECU activates the solenoid just as it did originally, the differences is that the fan never completely stops with the two speed unit. My thinking is that the charge air cooler always needs air flow across it(unless your idling), the engine room can be very hot and always needs air flow, plus with a side mount radiator the fan cycles on and off very frequently because there is no flow across the charge air cooler and radiator like a front mounted system. When the fan clutch locks up there is a lot of shock to the system. With the fan already running at half speed it greatly reduces the shock to the fan drive system and reduces wear to the fan clutch.

Ken    
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 04:49:15 AM by Hard Headed Ken » Logged

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Hard Headed Ken
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« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2012, 07:21:35 AM »

Instead of starting a new thread Iím just adding to my original. Several people asked about fuel mileage, this is what I have so far. This picture is from my Prodriver. This is after a drive up Mt. Eagle and back on I 24. 160 miles with the cruise set at 70 MPH when possible. There is quite a bit of stop and go driving in this trip. Iím hoping for over 9 on a longer trip. The engine ECM computes this estimated mileage based on distance traveled which comes from tire size and gear ratios. The other part of the calculation is from a pre-programmed injector size and the ECM knowing how long the injectors were open ďpulse widthĒ. My computer MPH is correct according to my GPS and the other parameters havenít been altered so the ECM MPG should be close. All that being said I wouldnít bet a lot of money that the estimated MPG is correct, it should be close. It will be later this summer before I can confirm the real MPG. Whatever it is, it looks like an improvement over 5.5 with the 8V92.
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« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2012, 07:54:45 AM »

Was the 8v92 a DDEC intercooled Ken also, most 8v92 DDEC's air to air get about the same mileage as you posted,now the MUI 8v92 it takes a little work lol to get there but 7 mpg is fairly easy to get on a MUI 8v92.

I can get the same torque as a 60 series with 8v92 at the same rpm I just can't seem to get the long flat torque curve the 14L series 60 have that part is hard to duplicate but I am working on it and I don't hide the fact I have blew a couple of 8v92 trying to get there lol

good luck
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 08:09:53 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2012, 08:09:35 AM »

Ken, I expect to see you in Nasheville!!! We have several S.O.B.'s (Some Other Brand) coming also. You and I need to discuss the triple turbo option!!!LOL
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Oonrahnjay
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« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2012, 08:27:14 AM »

  Instead of starting a new thread Iím just adding to my original. Several people asked about fuel mileage, this is what I have so far. This picture is from my Prodriver.  (snip)   

      Ken, I think you're on good ground to be confident in the "computed fuel used" for your Prodriver.  I have a "ScanGauge" on my VW TDI, it's right to within .1 or .2 per gallon per fillup (of course, we're talking about a 16 gallon fillup instead of 125!).  It will be interesting to see your calculated final MPG but it would surprise me if it were a big difference from the "digital-calculated".
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
1976 Daimler (British) Double-Decker Bus; 34' long
6-cyl, 4-stroke, Leyland O-680 engine

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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2012, 08:40:00 AM »

Ken, as you know, I use SilverLeaf VMSpc and that reads the same data.  With the VMSpc, I set up 4 odometers.  One of them is my fuel gauge.  I reset it at each fill up. 

With the first Series 60, I would be almost dead on when I filled the bus (pump gallons vs gallons used as shown on the VMSpc).  Obviously there was some variation with each fill due to frothing etc., but they were all very close and balanced out almost exactly over many fills.

With the second engine, the fuel used seems to be between 5-10% more than the VMSpc shows.  I have not taken the time to look at the accumulated numbers, but the gut feeling is that is off by some amount.  With VMSpc, I can input an offset to correct the fuel used data.

Like you, my MPH is almost dead on with the GPS.

It will be interesting to see how you fuel used compares to your ProDriver.

BTW, my generator and AquaHot come off a different tank, so the fuel used in the main tank is engine only.

As I recall, my overall mileage (per SilverLeaf) for 60K miles is about 7.6.  Part of the difference is that I have a long hard pull up to our 7500 ft altitude and I usually pull a heavy toad.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
í85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
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