Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
October 24, 2014, 09:48:28 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: New ownership began September 1st 2012!  Please send any comments to info@busconversions.com
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Tag wheels  (Read 2626 times)
jaybe_2
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 49




Ignore
« on: October 26, 2006, 02:19:55 PM »

I dont like the look of the tag wheels, just seems out of place to me. My brother has an 06 western star tri axle and the tag runs a single style rim ( no offset). Has any one ever tried to put one of these on a bus tag? I took some mesurements and it looks like it would make the tag line up with the out side dual. Any thoughts?
Logged
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6854





Ignore
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2006, 03:41:06 PM »

My not matter, but reversing the rim will also throw the wieght differently on the bearings.  One set will take all the weight and the other not.  Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Dallas
Guest

« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2006, 04:19:41 PM »

Jay,
Try turning your tag axle wheels around so that they are the same orientation as the drive axle.

I'm sure that there are tables and charts for the weight and bearings and axles and probably many other sources of trouble.

Keep an active log of what is going on with the wheels, tires, and orientation, then see if something is not kosher in the state of confusion.

Good Luck.

Dallas
Logged
jaybe_2
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 49




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2006, 04:34:35 PM »

Im not going to reverse the rim. That would make the wheel stickout beyond the body.The rim I'm talking about will only move the tire out about 3" or so. This is the best pic I could find It is like the front rim on this truck just a bit narrower.
Logged
Gary LaBombard
"Rustless Money Pit"
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 944


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2006, 04:50:18 PM »

Jay,
While at Arcadia last year I met the most interesting bus converter person ever, MR. Sonnie Gray, he has done what you want to do and perhaps can give you more insight to consider for your project. I have a photo of what you want, go to: http://community.webshots.com/user/converter101
go to the following location to find the photo I know you will appreciate.
Album #2 ("Buses of Ingenuity")
Photo # (Imoo3645), this is Sonnie Gray's bus with the cat engine in it also.
Contact Sonnie through this bb'd.
I hope this helps you out on your project.  I will try to post that photo here if I can figure this out.  If I can't go to my site to see this photo.  Wish me luck!!

Gary
« Last Edit: October 26, 2006, 04:54:21 PM by Gary LaBombard » Logged

Gary
Dallas
Guest

« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2006, 05:04:03 PM »

Jay,
That's a pretty Pete, however..... those wheels are built for heavy haulers. Typically 20K on the front axle.

If you want to use those wheels, .... great. If you have the cash to invest in something you will never see a return on.
Not many people really realize what those wheels cost and what they do.

Again, Good Luck!

Dallas

Logged
DavidInWilmNC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 594


1978 MC-8 as I bought it May 2005




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2006, 05:37:52 PM »

As much scrubbing on the pavement that the tag tires do, wouldn't making them stick out more cause them to drag more in tight turns?  Every time I go out to my car, I see the black marks on the street and driveway from the tag tires when I was backing the bus down the driveway. 
Logged
jaybe_2
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 49




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2006, 06:13:21 PM »

Davidinwilmnc Tire scrub is not a concern ( my bus has a liftable tag for those tight turns).
Dallas I am not going to run the large flotation tires and rims, the rim is the same width I have now and the tire will be a 12-22.5. The rim is not a bud It is made to run as a single. I will try to get a pic of my brothers tag wheel tomorrow I think that will explain things.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2006, 06:19:39 PM by jaybe_2 » Logged
DavidInWilmNC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 594


1978 MC-8 as I bought it May 2005




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2006, 07:37:48 PM »

As weird as the tag wheels & tires look being recessed, and for as long as they were installed like that, I wonder if there's a reason bus manufacturers did 'em that way? I mean, if there wasn't a reason, why have their buses look odd like that?

David
« Last Edit: October 27, 2006, 05:32:47 AM by DavidInWilmNC » Logged
RJ
Former Giant Greenbrier Owner
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2845





Ignore
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2006, 10:06:08 PM »

David -

Don't know exactly why the manufacturer's place the tags where they do, but if you look closely, they basically sit between the duals, inline with the steering axle.

Might have something to do with straight-line stability?

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
Logged

RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
Fresno CA
jaybe_2
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 49




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2006, 04:30:07 AM »

I have been told that the tires run cooler when offset like this.
Logged
BJ
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 144




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2006, 01:53:57 PM »

Well, I was told by an MKO Safety inspector and Bus accident investigator that the tag helps the bus to run straight. Back in the days of no tag there were problems with buses turning sideways so the industry added the tag. Keeping the bus straighter around corners, etc.  Just my two cents...
Logged
NJT5047
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1942





Ignore
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2006, 02:30:16 PM »

If using Super Singles, you won't have spare for the tags. They may be hard to find in some areas. VERY expensive. This also eliminates a spare for the steering and drive axles...maybe...you could probably install on on the steering axle.
The SS does look good. Is the SS rim size compatible with your other bus wheels (24" v 22.5)? I have no idea of SS wheel available diameters.
Most tags don't have much weight on them...about 2K lbs. Probably wouldn't be any wheel bearing problem...may scrub the wide tire off rather quickly. Looks as though the tags axle support bearings (not the wheel bearings) and support tube may be damaged by additional side loading when turning.
The pix Gary posted looks cool as H. Definitely better looking.
If you do this thing, post some pix.
There was an MC7 or 8 pictured in BC Mag that had "true" duals on the tags. Wonder how that came about?
JR
Logged

JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.

Ayn Rand
Hartley
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1217





Ignore
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2006, 04:53:47 PM »

What he said !!!

Tags are spares, Why fool with something that works...  Shocked I know...I should be quiet.. Grin
Logged

Never take a knife to a gunfight!
RJ
Former Giant Greenbrier Owner
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2845





Ignore
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2006, 07:01:39 PM »

JR -

The MC-7 you saw in BCM was one of the "combo" cars that Blitz Body in Chicago put together for Greyhound in the mid-70s, when the Scenics were starting to be retired.

Basically, they stuffed the Scenic's rear suspension & axles under the MC-7, reinforcing the frame in the process, and shortening the wheelbase (rearmost baggage bin is shorter).

This was their answer to the booming package express business Greyhound was experiencing back then - when the only competition was the Post Office and UPS.

Set up to carry 10 passengers, with a wall separating the parcel area in the rear.

More info can be found in Larry Plachno's book "Modern Intercity Coaches", available from Amazon, eBay sometimes, or directly from the publisher at www.busmag.com

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
Logged

RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
Fresno CA
NJT5047
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1942





Ignore
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2006, 07:43:23 AM »

Thanks Russ,  wondered how the duals were done.   Reckon one of those "combo" coaches would be rather rare.
Be rather rare to repair following damage or failure of the drive train.
Sure looks nice. 
JR
Logged

JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.

Ayn Rand
Stan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 973




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2006, 10:12:55 AM »

NJT5047: I converted a MC7 Combo and I just used a spacer instead of the inside wheel on the tag.There doesn't seem to a problem with parts for the drive train. A standard 3.70 differential that can be bought from a truck wrecking yard, a 740D Allison like all other buses and a 8V71N engine. The only odd thing is the angle drive that the fan is bolted to. I put new bearings and seals in it and changed from a steel fan to a plastic fan. The 'combo' is a great conversion bus. With the shortened wheelbase it will turn shorter than a MC5 35' bus.
Logged
kyle4501
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3145


PD4501 South Carolina




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2006, 04:18:55 PM »

Stan, Is the rear axle on a MC7 Combo the tag like on a PD4501? If so, I want to know more about removing one of the duals.

How did you reduce the weight carried by that axle? I thought if you reduced weight in the tag, that also reduced weight on the front, did that happen on yours?

Sure wiuld be nice to save the cost of 2 tires on mine! Grin

Thanks!
Logged

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. (R.M. Nixon)
Stan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 973




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2006, 05:22:59 PM »

kyle4501: The tag on the combo is the rear suspension assembly out of a 4501. The proper weight distribution on a single tag tire is 66-33% so it is simple to remove the existing pressure regulator and use a  regulator with a gauge to set the tag pressure at 33% of the pressure on the drive axle bags I mounted mine in the top corner of the rear bay so that it was easy to check..  Since I had air leveling system on the bus the drive axle pressure was always visible on the gauges on the dash. I never found it necessary to change the tag pressure after the initial setup and when I weighed the axles separately the distribution was correct. The air bag beams on the drive axle and tag axle are identical and completely separate.

One other thing you have to deal with is the tag brakes. If you only have one tire on the tag you will lock up that wheel unless you put smaller brake cans on the tag.

I think you can buy Budd spacers but it is simple to torch the center out of a scrap wheel and mount the spacer with the inner nuts just as if it were a wheel.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!