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Author Topic: Detriot Deisel 8V71 engine coolant in oil broke down in Central Florida  (Read 13856 times)
Oonrahnjay
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« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2012, 09:33:36 AM »

(snip)

     Clifford, please check your "My Messages" inbox.  Thx,  BH
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
1976 Daimler (British) Double-Decker Bus; 34' long
6-cyl, 4-stroke, Leyland O-680 engine

(New Email -- brucebearnc@ (theGoogle gmail place) .com)
LordFamily
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« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2012, 11:29:51 AM »

Update...

I first want to thank you all for the thoughts!  Wow, what a great board!!! I wished I had found you 10 years ago!  This is our third bus conversion (GMC, Prevost H5-60, LeMirage)

OK, we pulled the pan.  I'm cleaning up the inside so when the car mechanic gets here his friend a diesel mechanic in Massachusetts told us to check the following:
Main Bearing and Main rod.  Depending on what we find then we proceed to pull head or not.

I'll update tonight hopefully with great news!
THanks again!  I appreciate all the input.

SO am I correct that the DD 8V71n has no liners in the cylinders like the 8V92?  Is that what you mean by dry liner?
So am I correct that the point of failure could be 0-rings on top of the cylinder and/or cracked head?

If we decided to pull head and proceed to repair.... should I be looking for the cause of overheating like radiator partially plugged, etc?  This way we avoid future issues?

Thanks in Advance!
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1982 Prevost LeMirage PoorMa's Conversion
Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2012, 11:42:08 AM »

OK Here goes.

1) the 8V71 does have liners. But they are what is called "dry" liners because they don't have "water jackets" surrounding them to cool them.

2) yes it COULD be as simple as O-rings and/or a cracked head.

3)  YES MOST DEFINITELY! You need to find & fix the cause. (if it was caused by something else) It could have just been failure do to age.
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
luvrbus
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« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2012, 11:44:01 AM »

The 71 has liners difference is they do not have water on the top 2 inches like a 92 series they are removed the same way no 0-rings in the block like a 92 series

good luck
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2012, 11:54:37 AM »

Also please note you've had an offer from a local busnut who is familiar with a known local bus mechanic.  
I know nothing about "Big John" but I have heard of a mechanic in Sebring who do work on buses and my guess it is him.

I would highly recommend you take Alan up on his offer. It never hurts to have a 2nd or 3rd opinion and especially one who knows 2 Stroke Detroits!

Give Mr. Baker a call and let him introduce you to "Big John" and maybe even ask Big John to make a service call on his way home and have a look. (of course you might have to offer to pay for an hr of his time, or to serve him supper)

Remember lost of us busnuts are here to help, and most times the only thing we ask in return is that you pay it forward to the next person you find in need of help. (that's just how we work)
Grin  BK  Grin

Quote from: Alan Baker
Central FL Bus is the right place to go. But its 100 miles north of you. In Seabring Big John is the man. His shop is on 27 north accross from Highlands Regional Hospital. I have a hunch you are very close to him. I don't know if you have towing ins but if your in Sebring you can't be more than 10 miles away.
I have used Big John and have had only good experiences. Email me and I can pick you up and take you over to see him.

Alan Baker
84 Eagle 10
Sebring, FL
baker4106@aol.com
seven 5 seven 2 one 8 five 4 7 0h

Opps I see Clifford answered while I was typing my long winded response! & as ALWAYS he did more so in a correct description than I !
« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 11:56:17 AM by Busted Knuckle » Logged

Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
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« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2012, 05:20:51 AM »

Update #2,
Hey all,
We dropped a main bearing and a rod cap to examine their condition.
I've posted pictures.
They look great according to the car mechanic.
So today, I'm moving air intake, manifold, etc. off so Monday, we can pull the head with a 'cherry picker'
I hope to talk with "Big John" a highly recommended mechanic about 1/2 mile from us and get his input.
Thanks again for all the input!
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1982 Prevost LeMirage PoorMa's Conversion
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« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2012, 07:29:22 AM »

  The bearings look okay, but you should plastigage them for clearance. I would also check more than just one and also check the thrust bearing.

  I have read of antifreeze attacking bearings for many years. I dont have all the answers on it, but I have personally never seen it. There shouldn't be anything in any antifreeze/coolant that is corrosive to any metal. As most of the metals in the bearing shells are also in many other parts inside an engine and exposed to coolant, anything that would instantly attack the bearing shell would do likewise to anything else. In fact I would think aluminum would be the most effected by anything corrosive.

  What I have read about is many GM vehicles used the red long life GM antifreeze, and that if it mixed with oil it supposedly turns into some kind of slop or paste mixture the oil pump simply can not pump. Other than Buses I have completely avoided owning or working on GM products which is possibly why I have never seen the problem first hand, though there is plenty to read about it online. Certainly oil starvation would do rapid, or almost instant damage to a bearing. But I have never seen that happen with ethylene glycol based (green) coolant. In fact I have a friend who is addicted to mini Mopars with the Turbo 2.2/2.5 motors. He is blowing head gaskets all the time and always milking up his oil, and has never spun a bearing.
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luvrbus
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« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2012, 07:54:42 AM »

You are looking at the wrong side of the main bearings you can't tell much without doing all the caps and bearing it is the DD way doesn't sound like he ran the engine long but he has a plate full the water is in cooler, oil galley,air compressor,blower it's everywhere wish him luck but no way would I put it back together without changing 150 dollars of bearing JMO
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hargreaves
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« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2012, 08:25:02 AM »

Clifford did you mean you are Looking at the correct side of the main bearings, but the wrong side of the rod bearings.
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now as of Feb 2012 series 50 B400  . Sunshine Coast British Columbia
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« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2012, 08:44:27 AM »

Didn't come out the way I was typing lol but he can't tell much with just 2 bearings you and I both know that 230 degree most of the time does one in
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« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2012, 08:47:07 AM »

  So Clifford, your saying the coolant is attacking the back of the shell? If that is truly the case then its also behind all the cam bearings and the engine is as good as junk?

  Does anyone have more knowledge of this issue?

  The only possible reference I have is a Ferrari 308 engine. When I tore it down every rod bearing shell was "loose", and would simply fall out of the rod or cap. I didnt notice any corrosion but have always wondered what made them "undersized". They were factory bearings, the part numbers were correct, and the rods miced out to spec. The bearings O.D. had somehow "shrunk".

  I'm not so proud to say I havnt seen it all, but if this is true there really isnt any sense letting this man throw more money away.

  Alan, you need to remove the shells and look at the back side. If Clifford is right you have a much bigger problem.
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thomasinnv
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« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2012, 08:58:16 AM »

Paul, I think what Clifford was saying is that he needs to look at the other half of the bearing, not just the half that is in the cap. I'm with Clifford on this one, it only makes sense if your this far into it that you replace all the bearings for extra insurance. The worst you can do is give yourself a little extra peace of mind, and at best maybe get a little more oil pressure with the new bearings.
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There are three kinds of people in this world....those that make things happen, those that watch things happen, and those that just wonder what the heck is happening. Which one are you?

1977 MCI Crusader MC-8
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« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2012, 09:22:17 AM »

Paul, I think what Clifford was saying is that he needs to look at the other half of the bearing, not just the half that is in the cap.

  Yeah I read all of that. But Clifford also said the engine needs to be stripped completely bare and ALL bearings replaced. That aint goin to happen without removing the whole engine. Also potentially makes an on the road gasket failure a full blown engine failure, or may as well.

  I was just reading an interesting article on the issue. Apparently some of the chemicals in antifreeze, coupled with chemicals found in used diesel motor oil have been found to form strong acids. I have not read if its something that happens long term or short term, but interesting none the less.

  The point is not whether Clifford is right or not, but to keep this guy from wasting time and money. If Clifford is right (and I'm thinking he may very well be) the guy is going to need a lot more help.   
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Don Fairchild
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« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2012, 09:37:50 AM »

Before I went any further I would drop the rear main and look at the block, I bet it is broken. ( not uncommon on an over heat of the magnitude). It will brake through the bolt hole and the thrust area. If that is the case pull the engine and change it out to a turbo engine and fix the cooling system.

Don
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« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2012, 10:23:17 AM »

  Don, massive overheat or cracked block aside, what are your feelings on the antifreeze/oil contamination issue?
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