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Author Topic: What is with all the Prevost engine fires??  (Read 3057 times)
Zeroclearance
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« on: March 07, 2012, 03:58:12 PM »

Today Jerrod Niemann lost his bus.   Here is the link,  go and look at the Twitter picture.   I guess they weren't to happy.    http://www.theboot.com/2012/03/07/jerrod-niemann-tour-bus-fire/

Then there is Lee Brice fire.   He was actually sleeping.  

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_southeast_valley/mesa/country-singers-tour-bus-catches-fire-in-mesa


Randy was actually suppose to be with Jerrod.   However, he was having his first baby.   This would have been his 2nd bus fire in a year!

http://www.theboot.com/2011/03/09/randy-houser-bus-fire/

It's really hard to see what the real problem is.   It would be nice to see the NTSB (edit) reporting on these accidents.   The insurance companies keep these things to themselves.   It's either a electical/alternator fire, fuel fire or a turbocharger exhaust manifold fire.  
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 04:49:58 PM by Zeroclearance » Logged
belfert
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« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2012, 04:41:19 PM »

Why would the TSA investigate bus fires?  The TSA is responsible for the security of travel and mostly known for dealing with security for airplane travel.  The NTSB and/or the NHTSA would be the more appropriate agencies to investigate such fires.  The NTSB is most known for investigating airplane accidents, but they also investigate surface transportation accidents too.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2012, 07:27:03 PM »

Maintenance, maintenance, maintenance.

And historically, the highest engine room temperatures that the industry has ever seen.

You must be plugged in to the manufacturers service bulletin system and apply updates as they are brought out.

Nobody with a brain purchases one of these without a fire suppression system installed at the factory.

Exhaust wraps, pipe wraps, vigilant for any signs of hose deterioration, vigilance for careful and ongoing physical support for electrical cables.

Hydraulic lines? Consider switching to engine oil, it has a higher ignition temp than tranny or hydraulic oil.

Coaches have been lost to pin hole oil leaks in rubber hoses spraying onto hot exhaust parts.

The large electric cables to the alternator have mechanically failed due to lack of strain and weight relief, shorting on bodywork, and triggering the fire.

Spilled oil, cleaned up, engine room steam cleaned regularly, oil leaks fixed RIGHT NOW.

Anyone who ignores the engine room is at great risk of burning it down.

Engine room = surgical cleanliness.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

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Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area
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« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2012, 08:04:35 PM »

My friends at Arrow says 1.2 buses are lost to fires every week have no idea what a 1.2 bus looks like lol but they have lost 2 H-45 to fires in the last year and the engine compartments in their buses are spotless .

They were installing a fire suppression system in a H-45 today at the shop today their Serta's came with one for the engine and passengers compartment looked expensive but how do you put a price on safety or life

good luck
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« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2012, 09:32:07 PM »

  I saw an old 59 Chevy erupt in flames when the oil line to the external oil filter broke and it started spraying hot oil on the exhaust. Cool thing was the engine ran out of oil and locked up before he got the car stopped.

  Like said, fix your leaks, keep it clean and maintain. If anything looks amiss, fix it.
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« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2012, 11:43:31 PM »

"Hydraulic lines? Consider switching to engine oil, it has a higher ignition temp than tranny or hydraulic oil."

Installing engine oil in my B500???   Installing engine oil in the Prevost designed power steering?   

Buswarrior,  I have all the engine updates, I have the alternator brackets and cables secured per the service bulletins.   All those buses that I linked to are VERY recent and those are Newer Buses>   2002 and newer.   I think I saw only one EGR 14ltr.  My bus has the fire detector in two places over the engine.   

I purchase a pail of FireAde 2000.   It might be wise to build a 20 or 30 gallon fire supression system. 

Clifford, do your friends have an idea as to what the cause is?   Years ago the 50DN was to blame.   Most of the buses have been changed over to dual T1's..    The fuel system is in steel lines.  The suction lines are in braided aeroquip/parker lines.   High amperage cables are secured to the frame rails and diagonal framing.   

I did install exhaust wrap for my new turbo and manifold and downpipe this past summer.   I even installed the fire blanket on top of my valve cover.   I eliminated alot of engine heat.

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muddog16
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« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2012, 05:13:42 AM »

When I started thinking bus, many years ago, I looked at so many photo's one of the items I've always thought about was how with the engine compartment so cluttered do these monsters breath and stay cool......I've tried to keep my engine compartment simple and functional, heat wrap is a "must", not just the cross over area (8V92) to the turbo but the exhaust piping and the muffler.  I had a friend who was a maintenance insulator where I worked, this guy made the best blankets I've ever seen, they were for heat and noise, the man was a perfectionist and he made me a believer in controlling heat and noise.  Not only is the engine compartment a problem, but some of these converters (the pros) jammed 20 lbs of $#!% in a 10 lb generator compartment. I've noticed that many of the Busnuts have added cooling fans for their generators.

On the Prevosts they add pans under the exhaust and close most of the breathing room circulation in and around the bottom of the engines, I'm sure they have a good reason, just look at the new cars and trucks.........they are nightmares no room to work or breath, in the 70's you could almost sleep beside the engine under some hoods!   I personally think the problems stem from lack of air movement around the engine.  In their haste to give you a zillion options and toys.....they've ( all bus converters) created fire hazards waiting to ruin your day and wallet! 

But as a nut with a bus.....I'm going to do my best to eliminate that.....(hopefully) I will be successful.    The Kiss Theory works!
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Pat

1982 Prevost LeMirage
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http://prevostlemirage.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2012, 05:37:58 AM »

Interesting thread for sure!

I am starting a new one, so as not to detour this one, on engine heat.
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Dr. Steve, San Juan del Río, Querétaro, Mexico, North America, Planet Earth, Milky Way.
1981 Dina Olímpico (Flxible Flxliner clone), 6V92TA Detroit Diesel
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100 miles North West of Mexico City, Mexico. 6,800 feet altitude.
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« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2012, 05:59:49 AM »

have real good picture but again my abilities have failed.   Bob
« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 06:10:03 AM by robertglines1 » Logged

Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
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« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2012, 06:03:42 AM »

AreoGell and lead are best 2 products to use in the bedroom under the floor for engine heat and noise control,lead first AreoGell over the lead

good luck
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belfert
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« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2012, 06:06:01 AM »

All new MCI coaches come standard with a fire suppression system.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2012, 06:16:52 AM »

I bumped my old thread up so one can see actual pictures from minor fire to major fire. Electrial cable to metal frame.      Cry
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Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
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« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2012, 07:33:22 AM »

Yes, and no.

Leave your fancy Transmission alone.

Hydraulic system, I was thinking those coaches with hydraulic cooling fans, as well as the power steering.
Often one big system, and the large tank is in the engine room too.

10W40 works very nicely in Big Transit here. I can't remember the numbers, but the engine oil gives you a good number of degrees more room before it will catch fire versus hydraulic oil.

And the other variable in the entertainment coach world, the coach doesn't see the shop very often. The level of inspection and attention may be quite a bit less than a formal line run/charter company.

happy coaching!
buswarrior


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« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2012, 07:43:38 AM »

have real good picture but again my abilities have failed.   Bob

Robert,

Put the picture posting on the agenda for when we visit........ Wink

Cliff
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1975 GMC  P8M4905A-1160    North Central Florida

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Oonrahnjay
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« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2012, 07:49:37 AM »

Yes, and no.

Leave your fancy Transmission alone.

Hydraulic system, I was thinking those coaches with hydraulic cooling fans, as well as the power steering.
Often one big system, and the large tank is in the engine room too.

10W40 works very nicely in Big Transit here.  (snip)

    Yeah, I was fighting this with my bus.  The "factory recommendations" originally published for my bus are out of date even in England -- even there, they can't get lubes that "meet" the quoted standards; they have to check with oil companies to get the updated standard.  The originally published spec for my bus was 10W-30.  Mobil says that Delvac (conventional) 10W-30 is a perfect oil for my bus; Shell agrees for Rotella (conventional) 10W-30.  Both say that there is minimal real-world difference between their 10W-30 and the much more available 15W-40 and the 15W-40 will work fine, too.  

     I was talking to a mechanic who grew up working on these buses in England; he's been in Philadelphia for the past 12 or so years maintaining a fleet of buses like mine there.  He says that they run 15W-40 in the engine, transmission, power steering, etc.  Only exception is EP gear lube in the rear axle.  He says that they've never had a lube related problem.

     Sure makes it easier.   FWIW

BH  NC  USA
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
1976 Daimler (British) Double-Decker Bus; 34' long
6-cyl, 4-stroke, Leyland O-680 engine

(New Email -- brucebearnc@ (theGoogle gmail place) .com)
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