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Author Topic: Cheap Series 60's North Alabama  (Read 2401 times)
topfrog007
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« on: March 14, 2012, 08:24:30 AM »

Guys,

Sorry for the late notice, but there are some cheap Series 60's on Govt Liquidations. They look they are brand new, just been sitting in a crate for the past 15 years. I quickly browsed through the listings and counted at least 9 series 60's for sale.

I'm really not sure about any conversion issues, or how much Series 60's frequently go for but just thought I would share.

Here is an example one:
http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=5123072&convertTo=USD

Here is the list with more:
http://www.govliquidation.com/list/e10590/lna/1.html

Bid is currently at 1,200 and has one day left on the auction.
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Preston - Dothan Alabama - 1986 MCI 102A3
luvrbus
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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2012, 11:04:20 AM »

I heard you cannot use that engine in CA nothing new for that state lol
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Seayfam
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« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2012, 12:40:58 PM »

Clifford,
Do you know if those are a mechanical non EGR engine?
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Gary Seay (location Alaska)
1969 MCI MC-6 unit# 20006
8V92 turbo 740 auto
more pics and information here     "  www.my69mci-6.blogspot.com  "
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« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2012, 12:45:43 PM »

Would these be off road engines since they are tank engines?  Anyone know if I already have a Series 60 if this would slip right in?  Can anyone tell if these are new or not?  They look new, but it doesn't say.  Would there be concerns with a 15 year old engine that it might be rusted up inside?

There are a few red flags I see:  First, the condition is listed as F7 which means it needs repair or rebuild.  Second, the engines have a 1997 mfg date, but the paperwork says the government bought them in 2003.  Where were the engines in the mean time?

If these go cheap enough I might consider buying one for my bus.  The freight would probably cost as much as the engine plus I would have to figure out how the heck I would ever unload and move a 4,000+ pound engine at my house.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2012, 12:46:18 PM »

A 1997 should be pre-EGR so far as I know.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
RickB
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« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2012, 02:20:01 PM »

Seayfam, My ignorance may show up in a big way but I didn't think that the series 60 came in a mechanical version. I thought they were all ECM controlled. Wait for the dudes who know to respond though...

RB
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luvrbus
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« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2012, 02:50:22 PM »

All 60 series are electronic controlled
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busguy01
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« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2012, 02:52:22 PM »

Look new?? The ones I looked at on line show mis matched color parts and pieces and rusty exhaust parts.  The F7 discretion shows used, repairable. Are we looking at the same items?? Also noted - no starter. Probably not a bus pan - pan cost $750 Plus.
JimH
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« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2012, 03:18:54 PM »

2002 is when Detroit started EGR. In California (at least currently-with no change in the future) RV's are exempt from smog laws.  So an off road Series 60 could be used.  We had new military Freightliners in and they had 98 certified Series 60's in them.  Military is also exempt from smog laws.
All Series 60's are electronic engines-no mechanical non electronic engines were made.
This is why I'm converting my '85 Kenworth with mechanical 3406B.  If the laws ever do change, I'll have a Cummins ISL 450hp installed with all smog devices.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Seayfam
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« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2012, 04:07:29 PM »

Thanks guys,
That's what I thought, just didn't know for sure if they built something different for the military.
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Gary Seay (location Alaska)
1969 MCI MC-6 unit# 20006
8V92 turbo 740 auto
more pics and information here     "  www.my69mci-6.blogspot.com  "
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« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2012, 04:27:50 PM »

I hadn't looked at all of the engines before my first comment.  I swear at least one of those engines looks like new, but one or two look a little beat.  Even the worst ones look better than some of the used Series 60 engines I have seen.

My major concern would be the fact they are listed as needing repair.  If they were close by I would go by and take a look and getting one home wouldn't be near so costly.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
topfrog007
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« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2012, 07:18:57 AM »

Guys,

I have the ability to pickup a few of these Series 60's. IF they are in good mechanical condition would it be a good investment as in sell and make a profit if the ending price is between 2-4K? Not sure how much a new or rebuilt one would run.
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Preston - Dothan Alabama - 1986 MCI 102A3
luvrbus
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« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2012, 07:43:55 AM »

You need to be careful as you can buy the 12.7 running takeouts for 2500 and up and also you are buying a obsolete engine the 14L is more popular now than the 12.7 supposed to be better on fuel the jury is out on that one lol

good luck
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belfert
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« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2012, 07:59:05 AM »

A new Series 60 is big, big bucks.  I'm not even sure you can buy a actual new one.  You may only be able to buy a Reliabilt.  I've seen complete rebuilt Series 60 engines for over $10,000.  A Reliabilt is going to be even more than that.  If you were to buy one I would call your local Detroit dealer and see what they can tell you based on the serial number.

Anyone who has to meet EPA standards would not be able to put these in a vehicle as these are unlikely to meet EPA standards.  The military is typically exempt from pollution standards and these are possibly off highway engines.  The EPA stuff wouldn't matter to someone putting one of these in a private bus.

I would be scared of the F7 status on these which means repairable, but needs repair.  I swear at least one looks new or barely used, but someone may have just taken all the nice red caps off the replacement engine and put them on this engine.  I'm basing my assessment of the one engine possibly being new not just because of the red caps, but it appears to be really clean with little damage to any paint.  It does have rust on non-painted surfaces, but that could be from sitting in storage for a long time.

Old 11.1 engines with questionable histories that may be cores only are listed for $1,500.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
TomC
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« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2012, 09:45:16 AM »

The 14 liter Series 60 is still being made today for industrial uses, marine uses, truck and bus use (outside US). Series 60 was available in trucks and buses up until the 2010 emissions standards came in.  That's when Freightliner (who owns Detroit Diesel) dropped the on highway engine in favor of the new DD13, DD15 and DD16.
Series 60 is still a very reliable, rugged engine (many of our mechanics also think that).  The only reason the 14 liter was brought out was to get a bit bigger engine to counteract the natural lowering of horsepower by adding EGR.  Hence the 14 liter EGR engine puts out the same power as the 12.7 liter non EGR engine does.
Personally-the Series 60 is big engine (all Series 60's are the same size on the outside).  I would look for a smaller sized engine to install in a bus-like the Cummins M11/ISM, Mercedes 4000, Caterpillar C10, C11, C12, C13 (C12 is the best). Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Seayfam
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« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2012, 09:53:26 AM »

Tom,
How does the CAT 3406B compare to the series 60 as far as weight and size?
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Gary Seay (location Alaska)
1969 MCI MC-6 unit# 20006
8V92 turbo 740 auto
more pics and information here     "  www.my69mci-6.blogspot.com  "
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« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2012, 09:54:14 AM »

The 14 liter Series 60 is still being made today for industrial uses, marine uses, truck and bus use (outside US). Series 60 was available in trucks and buses up until the 2010 emissions standards came in. 

If I called a Detroit dealer could I still get a brand new Series 60 engine if I wanted one, or could they only offer me a Reliabilt?  I thought I read somewhere they don't sell brand new ones except to manufacturers.  I could never afford a brand new one or even a Reliabilt.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2012, 03:53:17 PM »

We also thought about purchasing either all or some of these but most don't even have the ecm's and are missing misc parts!
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Ace Rossi
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luvrbus
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« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2012, 04:02:04 PM »

Not Tom but my vote is for the 3406 Cat 425 HP best mechanical engine ever built not a big fan of the 3406 E
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Seayfam
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« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2012, 04:46:33 PM »

Not Tom but my vote is for the 3406 Cat 425 HP best mechanical engine ever built not a big fan of the 3406 E

Thanks Clifford,
I'll take any of you professional guys opinion. You may remember I bought a truck with a s60 and was planning on installing it in my bus. But after chasing around parts and pricing transmissions, the cost is probably going to be too much. So I am considering all my options, and would like to stick with mechanical engine and my 740 if possible.

I'll start a new thread on it when I get home from work.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Xparent Green Tapatalk
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Gary Seay (location Alaska)
1969 MCI MC-6 unit# 20006
8V92 turbo 740 auto
more pics and information here     "  www.my69mci-6.blogspot.com  "
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« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2012, 05:39:08 PM »

The 3406 is a 14L almost 15L forgot the exact number but it a horse best engine I ever ran in my trucks including the 60 series  12.7 and Cummins drivers could not destroy one pull one down to 900 rpm push the pedal the black smoke would roll and it would get back to power range you couldn't hardly lug one to death  I loved those old engines as much as a 8v92 well almost lol
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« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2012, 07:18:24 PM »

Brian,

On a different thread this last week Clifford gave us the numbers... here they are, SCARY!

"I called WW Williams for a price on a relibulit engine 30,000 for a 8v71 and 10 weeks waiting,38,000 for 8v92 and would you believe over 50 grand for series 60 12L".

Everyone, excuse yourself and change your drawers!

That's just mind boggling.

RB
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pete36330
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« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2012, 07:01:25 AM »

The question is,,,,at those prices,,just how many do they sell and to whom,,,just wondering!!!
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luvrbus
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« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2012, 07:14:40 AM »

Every time I bid some re builder buys those engine and on the new ones like the Cat's for sale the Cat dealers buy those and probably sells those back to the government lol

 I bid all the time on 8v92's and the Cat's no luck so far the C-9 Cats sold for around 10 grand each which wasn't a bad price for a new engine and a alternator worth 4 grand 
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TomC
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« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2012, 07:59:41 AM »

The Caterpillar 3406 was brought out in the late 70's to replace the very expensive 1693 that had dual overhead camshafts.  The first version was the 3406A (a push rod engine, but still the same 14.6 liters with small injection pump high mounted on the left side) that still had the pre-chamber heads (hence the term Clatterpillar) and only produced up to 375hp (you can't turn up a pre-chamber engine like you can a direct injection-you'll blow the pre-chamber right out of the head).  Then in 1985 Cat came out with the 3406B 400hp with jacket water aftercooling (which I have and has a very large injection pump mounted low on the engine).  That only lasted a year when in 1986 Cat came out with air to air intercooling and increased the horsepower to the "4 and a quarter" 425hp without more fuel from the 400hp.  This engine stayed in trucks until 1993 when the PEEC (Programmable Electronic Engine Controls) was added to the mechanical injection pump (was just an electronic throttle control). Then in 1995 or so, the 3406E (and now the 15.2 liter C15), which is a totally different engine with single overhead cam that is electonically controlled-much like the Series 60.
I believe (along with Cliff and others) that the 3406B model (whether jacket or air aftercooled) is just about the most reliable truck engine ever built.  When I had my engine in frame overhauled last at a million miles (second overhaul-but normal for the jacket water aftercooled engine), I asked if I should have the fuel injection pump rebuilt.  Cat said no-and they don't even carry replacement pumps in stock since they are so reliable!.
The 3406B model is about the same size and weight (maybe a bit heavier) then the Series 60 with the Series 60 a bit taller because of the Series 60's overhead cam. The two engines are so similar that when rebuilding a 3406B, you can put the C16 crankshaft and pistons to get a 15.2 liter!
Caterpillar still makes the 3406C model (much the same as the B) mechanically controlled engine for off road, pumps, generators that are not smog certified.  This is one of the main reasons I'm converting my truck-I can get parts for the 3406B and any mechanic knows how to work on one-as compared to the 8V-71.  3406B would be a great bus engine-just not quite as fuel efficient as a Series 60, but dirt reliable. Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2012, 08:04:07 AM »

Sort of confusing at the end above-When rebuilding the two engines-meaning either the C15 or 3406B (not the Series 60).  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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