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Author Topic: Now I've done it...  (Read 1460 times)
RickB
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« on: March 24, 2012, 11:30:43 AM »

So,

I was having a corrosion problem with my start batteries and I unhooked everything, cleaned it all up shiny and new and forgot which lead from the + side of the batteries goes to which lug on the main switch. Wiring was my weak suit before this post but memory was running a close second combine the two and you've got a big problem.

Anyone happen to have a picture or two of their battery compartment  could use for reference?

Gumpy is chuckling so loud I can hear him from 75 miles away!

Rick
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buswarrior
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« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2012, 11:56:06 AM »

Every busnut,

go now,

drop everything,

and permanently:

LABEL your CABLES.

How many wires have you got loose Rick?

the biggest ones are easy, the one attached to the wall on that stud is the negative, the matching whopper cable coming out of a hole in the wall will be a positive.

Did you have any wired into the centre between the two batteries?

oh dear, don't experiment or the smoke will be let out of something fer shure!

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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Jriddle
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« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2012, 12:07:02 PM »

Not sure what yours looks like but here what mine looks like LOL.


Quit Laughing Gumpy

John
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John Riddle
Wells NV
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RickB
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« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2012, 12:52:14 PM »

Okay here's the scoop. I have a vanner equalizer and that is making it a bit more complicated. So the black out of the Vanner crosses throughout the compartment and hooks with the big - into the grounding post.

I have two big wires coming from the back wall of the compartment that according to Jriddles picture I join together on the bottom lug of the master on/off then the + of the front battery goes to the top lug on the master on off switch.

Here's my problem. I still have two +'s or red wires coming out of my vanner. I know that one of them goes to one of the lugs on the master switch and the other two join together on the adjustment bolt on one of the battery post leads.  Anyone make a guess as to which battery post it attaches to?  In Jriddles post it's going to the negative of the from battery I believe.

Have I said lately that sometimes I do goofy stuff? Pretty disappointed in my lack of forethought.

RB
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Jriddle
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« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2012, 01:07:52 PM »

Not sure about your set up. But everything hooked to the battery switch should all be Positive and all grounds should hook to battery or the chassis. You may have to label an unhook from vanner and run a extra wire and and use your meter to do a continuity check in order to identify which wire is which going through the bulkhead.


John
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John Riddle
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RickB
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« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2012, 01:12:39 PM »

So here's two twists... Jriddles post has a wiring diagram for the batteries to the switch but it appears from the pictures it looks as though the two main big feeds to the rear of the bus in the picture are supposed to be on the top lug not the bottom as Jriddle's is setup. So, does the positive of the battery cable that attaches to the master switch connect to the topmost lug or the bottom one? Second question I have two red leads coming from my banner One goes to a big lug on the master switch and the other goes to the battery post connector on a battery. Which lug and which post on the battery does it go to.

I was at least bright enough to remember where the black lead out of the banner went to.... the main ground lug.

I'm goon be spending some time with my manuals I'm sure.

Rick
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belfert
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« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2012, 01:17:49 PM »

Remember with the Vanner that the ground should be hooked up last.  You can let the smoke out of some models if you don't hook up the ground last.
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Jriddle
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« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2012, 01:21:16 PM »

Another pic



John
« Last Edit: March 24, 2012, 01:32:54 PM by Jriddle » Logged

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John Riddle
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akroyaleagle
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« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2012, 01:24:06 PM »

I don't know how to post photos here.

I also have a Vanner. You can go to photobucket and look at akroyaleagle to see how mine is wired.

I suspect you need some wires to your charger(s).
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Joe Laird
'78 Eagle
Huron, South Dakota
RickB
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« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2012, 01:30:27 PM »

Okay, Now I'm really confused... Brian, the instructions for my banner say remove ground first and replace ground first.

Second, I'm looking at my manual and it has the ground of the Vanner going to the big ground lug.

One of the remaining two leads going to 24 volts which I'm taking to mean either one of the lugs of the master switch.

then the third lead to the positive post on rear battery.

If that;s true then Jriddle's is hooked up incorrectly or I have a different model coach.

Oh just shoot me now...

RB Angry

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« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2012, 01:35:41 PM »

You may be right Rick the ground wire Hooked to the battery may be for my 12V on the coach I changed picture again sorry if I added confusion.

John
« Last Edit: March 24, 2012, 01:47:45 PM by Jriddle » Logged

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John Riddle
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RickB
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« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2012, 01:48:36 PM »

My manual suggests that you're lead should be coming from the + on the other battery rather than the -  on the battery where it is.. I can't get the page small enough to attach it
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RickB
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« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2012, 01:51:06 PM »

John, look at page 7-25 of your manual. I can't read a schematic to save my life.

Let me know what yours says

thanks for your help by the way.

RB
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« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2012, 02:27:18 PM »

Rick not sure about your manual but 7-25 in my two books does not have any schematic on them. Everything on my coach seems to work fine.

John
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John Riddle
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1984 MC9
Sam 4106
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« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2012, 05:47:10 PM »

Hi Rick,

It doesn't matter which end of the jumper wire between the two batteries you hook your 12 volt wire from your Vanner to. Both ends of that jumper are at 12 volts. Test them with your volt meter to verify that. There are three wires from the Vanner to the batteries, one is ground, another is 24 volts +, the other is 12 volts +. Please mark your wires permanently NOW, As buswarrior suggested so in the future you won't have this problem.

Good luck, Sam MC 8
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RickB
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« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2012, 06:33:46 PM »

Thanks guys... I will mark them because I couldn't stand the ribbing I'll take from Sir Gumpalot if I make this mistake again.

RB
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gumpy
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« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2012, 06:53:44 PM »

Seriously, why does everyone think I take great pleasure in your pain? 

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Craig Shepard
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eagle19952
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« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2012, 07:54:50 PM »

I did not find your battery hook-ups but these are preety clean,nice lookin coach.







I'll trade you steering wheels.... Grin
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Donald PH
1978 Model 05 Eagle w/Torsilastic Suspension,8V71 NA, DDAllison on 24.5's 12kw Kubota.
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buswarrior
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« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2012, 08:00:48 PM »

Geez, Louise, don't connect anything unless you are completely committed!!!!!!!!!!!

Who lives near you and can come over to help?

Another audio-visual project that requires funding in time and hardware that I'd like to do as a demonstration...

It would be VERY good for busnuts to have all the major battery type connections attached to a battery compartment bus bar, and then there would only be three connections dropped from the bus bar to the pair of batteries.

There isn't a one of us that isn't going to be somewhat more stunned by age than we were the last time we fooled with the cables.

Age catches up with us all. The simpler we design, the longer we can fool our children that we are still ok?

Wisdom has more to do with tricking ourselves to stay inside our diminishing capacities than it has to do with smarts.

Somebody remind me to come up with this little project and document it?

I'll surely forget.

happy coaching!
buswarrior




 
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RickB
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« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2012, 06:31:54 AM »

Gumpy,

It was all in fun... Please don't take it personal. You have always been a good friend and have helped me more than once figure out serious problems. I know you shake your head once in awhile when I talk about the"best deal ever" on that  "just rebuilt" 8v92 down the street but I also know you'd be the first guy over here with tools if I needed help.

but seriously folks.... what was I thinking?   What a rookie.

Well, I'm taking Sam's advice on how to get her back together and I'll have a fire extinguisher handy just in case.

It does seem like it would matter what post on the master switch I put the vanner on in my head though, if it's on the battery side wouldn't that mean the vanner is getting power all the time regardless of the switch? Should I put the Vanner + on the other post? Meaning it would only get power when the switch is on? and if that was backwards may that explain why the batteries were corroding so much even with the master switch off?

Gumpy, don't you and the wife need to test run those motorcycles soon? The fish are running in the stream, I've got cold Newcastle's in the fridge and a ton of wood at the fire pit to get rid of this summer. Come visit soon.

RB
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gumpy
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« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2012, 08:59:51 AM »

Gumpy,

It was all in fun... Please don't take it personal. You have always been a good friend and have helped me more than once figure out serious problems. I know you shake your head once in awhile when I talk about the"best deal ever" on that  "just rebuilt" 8v92 down the street but I also know you'd be the first guy over here with tools if I needed help.


I'm not saying I don't take great pleasure in your pain, I'm just wondering why everyone thinks it?  It's not like I actually jump with glee!!


Quote
Gumpy, don't you and the wife need to test run those motorcycles soon? The fish are running in the stream, I've got cold Newcastle's in the fridge and a ton of wood at the fire pit to get rid of this summer. Come visit soon.

We'll have to see how things go. Teri's at church all day today. Will have to see how the weather is next weekend.
I'll be in your neighborhood the first weekend of May, probably that Friday, for the pottery tour.

As for the connections, the battery should be connected per the diagram that was already posted in this thread. Left ground post to left battery negative. Left battery positive to right battery negative. Right battery positive to battery switch.

The vanner should have 3 posts on it. Left is ground. Middle is 12v. Right is 24v. Connect the left to the left battery negative. Either end of the ground cable (battery of frame) that's convenient. Connect the center (12v) to the left battery positive, or to the right battery negative (either end of the jumper between the batteries). Connect the right (24v) to the right
battery positive (either on the battery post or on the main switch input side). Don't connect it on the output side of the main switch.

If you have a 12v feed for the coach, it can be connected in the same place as the vanner 12v, or it can be connected to the vanner 12v post.

Call if you need me to laugh at you... I mean, if you need more clarification...

craig
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Craig Shepard
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http://bus.gumpydog.com - "Some Assembly Required"
thomasinnv
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« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2012, 09:28:11 AM »


If you have a 12v feed for the coach, it can be connected in the same place as the vanner 12v, or it can be connected to the vanner 12v post.


Just to clarify here, if by "coach" you are referring to the "house bank" I would not connect it this way without some means of disconnecting/switching off while parked or he runs the risk of depleting the start batteries if he runs down the house bank while parked.

If you in fact are referring to the chassis batteries, well then the issue is moot. This is why I like to call them "house" batteries and "chassis" or "start" batteries. Less confusion. People may misunderstand what is intended by "coach" batteries. JMW and YMMV.

Good Luck!
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« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2012, 09:35:23 AM »

Am I missing something.  Can't we just determine if a cable is ground or not by testing continuity/resistance?

If I remember when working, I like to spray the hot cables red or wrap some red tape at the ends.
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gumpy
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« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2012, 10:30:25 AM »


Just to clarify here, if by "coach" you are referring to the "house bank" I would not connect it this way without some means of disconnecting/switching off while parked or he runs the risk of depleting the start batteries if he runs down the house bank while parked.

If you in fact are referring to the chassis batteries, well then the issue is moot. This is why I like to call them "house" batteries and "chassis" or "start" batteries. Less confusion. People may misunderstand what is intended by "coach" batteries. JMW and YMMV.

Good Luck!

In his original post, he said it was his "start" batteries. That would be the coach batteries, not the house batteries.

Coach is the vehicle. House is the conversion. Most buses have a 12v feed for running lights and other 12v accessories. On a 24v system, this is typically a center tap off the coach batteries.
Unfortunately, often the headlights were rewired to use this connection; hence the need for a Vanner equalizer.

I don't disagree that a disconnect should be on the 12v feed, regardless of where it goes. However, there was no mention of that in his posting, and that's not really the point
of the thread. My comment regarding a 12v feed does not assume there is or is not a disconnect on the 12v. It also does not imply that the 12v feed is a crossover charging line to
the house bank. It merely says where the tap can be connected on the coach bank.



Oh, and BTW Rick, read the Vanner label again. I think it probably says something like "Remove the ground first. Replace the ground last."
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Craig Shepard
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http://bus.gumpydog.com - "Some Assembly Required"
akroyaleagle
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« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2012, 12:02:56 PM »

Eagle 19952,

Thanks for posting those photos.

I admit I know very little about DC electric. That's why I suggested the photos. I know what a headache it is to work on wiring. I have numbered wiring, wiring diagrams, color coded ends, photos, etc and I still hate it. I also have a fair amount of age induced memory loss, not to mention near complete loss of interest.

Quite a lot of the photos in that photobucket stash are now obsolete. I am still working on a complete redo. All the big work is finished. I need to post new photos. See last sentence above.

Contact me about the steering wheel. It was replaced by a new burlwood tilt/telescopic.
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Joe Laird
'78 Eagle
Huron, South Dakota
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