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Author Topic: Use stretchy rope to tow out a stuck heavy vehicle  (Read 9952 times)
gumpy
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« Reply #45 on: November 01, 2006, 05:49:09 AM »

Yeah, we always attach about 2' of chain w/ hook to the roop ends with a clevis. The downside there is that if you're not careful, the hook and come unhooked while you're walking back to the driver's seat. That's when things get broke and people get injured!

We also use a torch to melt the ends. Wearing a glove, we shape the molten nylon into a round, tapered nub. Makes weaving a lot easier if you get it smooth before it cools. If you leave it rough, it snags the individual nylon strands and make it a real pain. The black tape is there to keep the strands together while unraveling and melting, until you can get it all woven back together.

This would be a good thing to teach at a bus rally seminar sometime. It's always a good skill to have when you need it.
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Craig Shepard
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http://bus.gumpydog.com - "Some Assembly Required"
H3Jim
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« Reply #46 on: November 01, 2006, 06:18:32 AM »

Bob,

good Sam towing policy excludes off road towing, so you'd be on your own.

Gumpy

I got my 1" rope with 15% stretch from West Marine.† Pricey, but I had to have it.† It was about $3 a foot.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2006, 12:54:42 PM by H3Jim » Logged

Jim Stewart
El Cajon, Ca.  (San Diego area)

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« Reply #47 on: November 01, 2006, 08:59:36 AM »

Wearing a glove, we shape the molten nylon into a round, tapered nub.
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Excellent point Gumpy† that I forgot to mention. Once you try it without gloves you will never try it thay way again. Do not ask me how I know. LOL
Richard
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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
gumpy
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« Reply #48 on: November 01, 2006, 09:29:26 AM »

Wearing a glove, we shape the molten nylon into a round, tapered nub.
[/size][/color]

Excellent point Gumpy† that I forgot to mention. Once you try it without gloves you will never try it thay way again. Do not ask me how I know. LOL
Richard


OK, I won't ask† Cheesy Cheesy

BTDT.

One thing I've found out, I don't ever have to worry about someone telling me I have hairy knuckles. I keep running the torch across them!† Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: November 02, 2006, 12:07:20 PM by gumpy » Logged

Craig Shepard
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« Reply #49 on: November 02, 2006, 11:42:13 AM »

A word of caution. If anyone is planning on building one of these items, be sure you use true nylon rope. It should be three strand to enable weaving an eye in each end. And make sure it is not some type of plastic or propylene rope. The white nylon is very soft as compared to the plastic line that is relatively much harder.
Richard
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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
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« Reply #50 on: November 07, 2006, 04:58:36 PM »

A word of caution. If anyone is planning on building one of these items, be sure you use true nylon rope. It should be three strand to enable weaving an eye in each end. And make sure it is not some type of plastic or propylene rope. The white nylon is very soft as compared to the plastic line that is relatively much harder.
Richard

Finally a topic i deem myself qualified to comment on, (Too bad its not about Busses   Roll Eyes )

Richard is correct regarding Nylon, Do not confuse it with Dacron Line, which is also soft and white.  Best Bet is to buy your rope through a marine shop if you really want to be sure of the Specs.

Richard: With Regard to the three strand comment,  Although easier to splice, Particularly less than 1", It isn't as strong as a doublebraid layup of the same type of nylon.  Laypersons can splice doublebraid, But you have to pay attention to where you cut the jacket.  Several manufactures have splicing instructions, and kits, or you can google it depending on the cover layup, An eye splice is always preferable to knot!

BK:  Albeit short for the Bungee application, i would hazard that you have a "Double Braided" Nylon Tow strap with an eye spliced into it.  Not as simple as the three strand eye splice, but much more serviceable, Just look at the Mooring lines on any smaller vessel.  Dont see three strand used much above 1" although its elongation characteristics are good, It just dosent have the loading capability of the double braid.  Lemme give you an apples to apples on Nylon 3 strand V Nylon Double braid.  1" 3 strand  Tensile strength 29,400 Lbs  1" Nylon Double Braid  34,000 lbs  if you go with a multi-Braid composite, You can get a 1" with a tensile strength rating around 70,000 Lbs, but it is a Low Elongation construct (Dosen't Stretch much)  Also, To contrast the increse in tensile strength, a 1.5 (36mm) double braid rope is close to 70,000 Lbs tensile strength

Remember tensile does not equate safe, usually a multiplication factor of 5-10 for figuring for noncrit apps, and 15% for critcal apps.

Don't have any comments regarding throwing a tire on the line, Just remember the basics, Stand 90 degrees to the direction of tension, Stay out of the bight if using a fairlead, and remember, even if your the flash, the snapback is too fast to avoid, so be aware.  All synthetic lines have a Kill Zone for snapback, The Sea Going Services spend millions a year on training in an effort to keep the poor deckies from getting dead!  Do a google on synthetic line snapback if you want to know more, and read to your hearts content.


Thanks in advance for letting me pretend to be a "Boats" again

Jim
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pvcces
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« Reply #51 on: November 08, 2006, 10:45:57 PM »

Good stuff, Jim! I liked it.

For what it's worth, we use a similar snubber to keep from losing aur anchor gear if the winch should run away. Our winch does not have a manual brake, so if the engine quits while lowering the hook in deep water, we could get a runaway. If that should happen, getting out of the kill zone is what we will concentrate on.

One day, we will build a brake onto the winch.

Tom Caffrey
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Ketchikan, Alaska
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Lee Bradley
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« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2006, 10:13:29 AM »

Did anyone see the Mythbusters show on being cut in two by the broken cable? According to them, it canít happen. Of course their test is pretty bad as usual; they took the cable up to rated load, not failure, and cut it.
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eglluvr
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« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2006, 10:43:04 AM »

Did anyone see the Mythbusters show on being cut in two by the broken cable? According to them, it canít happen. Of course their test is pretty bad as usual; they took the cable up to rated load, not failure, and cut it.

I like watching that Show....Kinda lets you put your brain in neutral

anyhow, Remember, snapback with wire, cable, glass etc, is always in the direction to which force is being applied, from the point of failure.  I wonder if they showed the movie, or clips from the navy safety office "Synthetic line snapback"  I don't personally know of anyone cut in half, (I could be lying, But it's not like they would accuse me  Grin ) but i do know a guy that had a leg amputated below the knee, from being in the bight.

That movie and the forrestal movie were always annual events with most deck safety officers. 

Oh Yeah, My point is this...  Unless you happen to be crossing, stepping, straddling (Moron) the cable, rope, line, the odds of getting cut in half would be pretty phenomenal.  But i still wouldnt want to get hit with a couple of hundreds of pounds of material, even with its stored energy mostly used up.

Be Smart and know your danger zones.

Jim
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kyle4501
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« Reply #54 on: November 10, 2006, 11:05:43 AM »

I thought the cable rated load was the safe load limit. This would take into consideration the stretch & ensuing recoil if it breaks. this alone would make cutting one at rated load a useless test for nasty recoil.

If someone inspects the cable & only uses it at or below rated load, they probably will never have a catastrophic failure. However, I have mis-used cables by overloading them & when you do that, yor are lucky if you don't get what you deserve. I know I was!† Grin
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« Reply #55 on: November 10, 2006, 04:55:26 PM »

I think the point of whether the cable breaking and killing you or not is kind of moot. If the cable they were using snapped and wrapped itself around you, most likely you would wish you were dead anyway.

Also, the poor little piggy they were testing with finally did meet his demise when they wrapped the cable around him and jerked it taut with the loader.

Obviously, that little piggy shoulda stood home!
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Dirtball
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« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2006, 04:49:42 AM »

BUSTED KNUCKLE......I saw your photo of the military strap. THat is NOT rated to pull your bus. It has alot hardware attached that could kill or worse injure(head trauma) anyone in it's path.  Those straps were used to suspend 2000-4000 lb items under a helicopter. they are not 40,000lb rigs. I have used them to snatch 2-3 ton vehicles from the mud, snow.. I would not use them to attempt to move a bus. I haven't fully read the above posts , just wanted to let you know before someone gets hurt. .......
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gumpy
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« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2006, 11:45:38 AM »

If anyone would like to have a big rope, I'll make an offer to weave eyes in one for cost, plus a few bucks for beer  Wink .

I found a supplier that will sell me cut lengths of rope (min 200 ft) for $1.95/ft for 1 1/4" (33,800 lbs test), $2.75/ft for 1 1/2" (47,800 lbs test). Safe working load is 10%-15% of test. I can get 1" and 2", also.

I will weave the loops. Ataching clevises and chain, will be up to the buyer. You decide how long you want it.

You can contact me offline if interested.

craig
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Craig Shepard
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DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2006, 11:50:47 AM »

If anyone would like to have a big rope, I'll make an offer to weave eyes in one for cost, plus a few bucks for beer† Wink .

I found a supplier that will sell me cut lengths of rope (min 200 ft) for $1.95/ft for 1 1/4" (33,800 lbs test), $2.75/ft for 1 1/2" (47,800 lbs test). Safe working load is 10%-15% of test. I can get 1" and 2", also.
I will weave the loops. Ataching clevises and chain, will be up to the buyer. You decide how long you want it.
You can contact me offline if interested.
craig
I would advise not going up to the larger sizes as I believe you would lose the elastic stretch quality that is the secret of the operation.
Richard
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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
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« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2006, 01:31:38 PM »

Anyone have any idea of how much pull is exerted to pull out a 40,000 lb stuck in the sand bus?  Its only pulling it, not lifting it.

DML, maybe that's related to a 3000 lb Toyota truck doing 20 miles an hour in order to pul your stuff out.
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Jim Stewart
El Cajon, Ca.  (San Diego area)

Travel is more than the seeing of sights, it is a change that goes on, deep  and permanent, in the ideas of living.
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