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Author Topic: Water Pump Revisited. Should I go 110 or 24volt?  (Read 1153 times)
Scott Bennett
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« on: April 25, 2012, 06:14:07 PM »

I almost bought Home Depot's Flojet pump (7.4 GPM) today and wanted to plumb it in with my new 100 gallon freshwater tank. But something deep inside me said "dummy, go ask the busnuts before you do something...well.....dumb". So here I am. Everything in our coach is wired 110 so we're comfortable with that. The only downside of the home depot Flojet is it's huge...seriously...big mama...what say you? I searched the site and know tons of you love the sureflo extreme 5.7 but I would prefer to go with 110 unless someone out there convinces  me otherwise. I have no house batt bank and have no money for one until later this summer. So before our journey across this land starts in three weeks, I just wanted to get some water flo in our bus when on the road...would love any and all suggestions :-)
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Scott & Heather
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Geoff
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« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2012, 07:01:14 PM »

I think you should be thinking of 12v, after all that is what most conversions use for the house system.
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Geoff
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Brian Diehl
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« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2012, 07:03:45 PM »

I run a 24v water pump.  Easy to wire, easy to power, and doesn't use hardly any electricity.
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buswarrior
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« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2012, 07:08:29 PM »

Do you want to have to get a source of 110V just to rinse your hands?

Battery powered pump gives you access to water right now, anytime, on the road, parked, wherever, whenever.

Go with the voltage your bank is going to be.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

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Scott Bennett
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« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2012, 07:36:37 PM »

24 volt would be fine but would have to tap into start batteries. Bad idea, I know. But thee hath a good point. Who wants to have to run the genset just for a quick flush. Ugh. We will be running the genny nonstop though anyway since our fridge needs juice until we get an inverter and batt bank.
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Scott & Heather
1984 MCI9 6V92-turbo with 9 inch roof raise & conversion in progress.
http://www.scottmichaelbennett.com/p/our-bus.html
˙ǝɯoɔlǝʍ suoıʇɐuop ˙snq ʍǝu ɐ pǝǝu ʎlqɐqoɹd ll,ǝʍ 'sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı
Lin
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« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2012, 08:24:30 PM »

I would go with the voltage of the house bank.  Why over complicate something so simple?  12v water pumps are easily available too.
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Brassman
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« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2012, 08:45:26 PM »

If you looked at a pump at Home Depot it would be a Flotec, which is probably a residential shallow well pump. You already observed that it is "big", it would also be loud, and it's induction motor would have relatively high inrush current.

You don't need a pump with 20' lift. I'm with everybody else, get a battery powered  water pump. Though the right 120 vac pump might work very well.

Time to do some research.  Cheesy
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Brassman
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« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2012, 09:10:57 PM »

How about something like this: http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-pumps-water/shurflo-pump.htm ?
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jjrbus
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« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2012, 09:57:01 PM »

KISS, keep it simple  24V bus 24V pump! I watched Ebay and when a 24V pump went cheap I bought and carried as a spare.
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Uglydog56
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« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2012, 10:04:16 PM »

Eventually you are going to have a battery bank, correct? If so, I too rcommend the 24v pump, along with a surge tank.
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Rick A. Cone
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bevans6
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« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2012, 04:32:21 AM »

There is no reason not to use the start batteries as a "house bank".  Many do so, with the proviso that you have to be careful of use and you have to have a way to charge them that is independent - a generator.  That said - there is no way I would use a residential 120 volt pump.  they typically have 1/2 to 3/4 hp motors, take a lot of electricity and are very loud compared to a 12v or 24v RV type pump.  I would not hesitate to run such a pump from your start batteries.

Most people who design a 120V coach also have a good sized inverter and house bank to let their appliances work independent of external power.  Rarely do they run their generator 24/7 when not parked next to a pedestal.

Brian
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Scott Bennett
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« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2012, 05:10:27 AM »

Geoff: My coach has nothing 12 volt...all 24 and though you're right, 12 volt is everywhere and easy to find, I'm probably going the 24 volt route. May regret that someday on the side of the rode and no replacement 24 volt pump anywhere, but so goes my life haha!

Brian: Thanks for the concise argument for 24 volt pump v.s. Flotec 110 pump. That's what I needed to hear...and ultimately all of you convinced me to stay away from the home depot 110 pumps...not for our application.

Buswarrior: yeah...good point. everything else is wired 110, but yeah...I see your point.

Lin: Doing it...going to stick with 24volt. I hate overcomplification

Brassman: Cool...that 110 model was what I wanted initially but couldn't find anywhere. But 3.3 gpm is not enough pressure for me. I like my showers  pressured...but yes, you described the flotec perfectly...and yes, I'm sure it would be loud. Things that never occurred to me at Home Depot.

jjrbus: exactly what I'm going to do. Though I can't wait on the first one. Leaving in 2-3 weeks. Need to find one sooner.

uglydog: Yes sir...definitely see the need for one in the future...so yes, I'll get 24volt and probably go with a 24 volt battery bank too.


Excellent. This is precisely why my "dummy" dinger went off when I was at Home Depot. Loud, big, use tons of power (one was rated at 5 or 10 amps loaded..yikes). Ok, so I'm convinced to go with the 24 volt surflo extreme 5.7 . On other threads many of you mention that there isn't a need for a surge tank using that particular pump. I'll buy one, but if I don't need one, I'll save the space in the bay. I'm crammed for space now. 30 gallon hot water heater, 100 gallon black/grey combo 100 gallon fresh, 100 gallon aux fuel tank in first bay (for a total of 280 gal of fuel) so yeah...crammed. So do I need the surge tank with the extreme 5.7? Thank you a n
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Scott & Heather
1984 MCI9 6V92-turbo with 9 inch roof raise & conversion in progress.
http://www.scottmichaelbennett.com/p/our-bus.html
˙ǝɯoɔlǝʍ suoıʇɐuop ˙snq ʍǝu ɐ pǝǝu ʎlqɐqoɹd ll,ǝʍ 'sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı
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« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2012, 05:34:05 AM »

You don't "need" a surge tank with any demand activated pump, they are designed to work without them.  The surge tank does smooth out the flow of water for short demand requirements.  To me they are a luxury item, hence I don't have one...  but may upgrade in the future!

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
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Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
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« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2012, 05:36:14 AM »

24V are used on boats, easy to find!

   http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=985570&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=50632&subdeptNum=50638&classNum=50640
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Scott Bennett
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« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2012, 05:36:54 AM »

Great...just scoured other old threads and came to that consensus too. We boondock rarely...very rarely. twice a year for a few days. Now on another older thread TomC mentions this...and it intrigues me since I live by the KISS principle:

Quote
I was at the Albuquerque get together two years ago hosted by Camping World.  The Shurflo factory rep was there and I asked a few questions about the new electronic Extreme Series.  He said yes they do what's advertised, but are very sensitive to any dirt, and can and do quit requiring new electronics.  The Classic series, on the other hand, with their simple spring loaded click switch is as reliable as a truck.  Point-I use two of the Whisper Kings in parallel.  Works great when someone is showering and other is washing dishes-don't have a volume issue.  The pumps have been in my bus for 16 years with NO servicing of any kind-not even adjusting them.  And they still pump turning off both at the same time.  I like it so much, I'm repeating it on my truck conversion.  Good Luck, TomC
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Scott & Heather
1984 MCI9 6V92-turbo with 9 inch roof raise & conversion in progress.
http://www.scottmichaelbennett.com/p/our-bus.html
˙ǝɯoɔlǝʍ suoıʇɐuop ˙snq ʍǝu ɐ pǝǝu ʎlqɐqoɹd ll,ǝʍ 'sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı
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« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2012, 06:07:37 AM »

The Flojet Sensor VSD pump can operate on either 12 or 24 volt.  It is a fairly common item that Camping World stores should have and many RV dealers would have it too in case it breaks on the road.  For some reason I bought a spare and for the life of me I have no idea why I bought a spare.  I have never had a water pump fail on me.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
Scott Bennett
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« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2012, 08:09:42 AM »

That flojet doesn't have enough flow for me. Want something in the 5GPM range like the Shurflo Extreme. Also, if I put two Whisper Kings in parallel, it would equal the amp draw of 1 flojet 110 unit. So not really seeing the advantage there...
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Scott & Heather
1984 MCI9 6V92-turbo with 9 inch roof raise & conversion in progress.
http://www.scottmichaelbennett.com/p/our-bus.html
˙ǝɯoɔlǝʍ suoıʇɐuop ˙snq ʍǝu ɐ pǝǝu ʎlqɐqoɹd ll,ǝʍ 'sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı
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« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2012, 08:19:24 AM »

I'm wondering why you think you need 5 GPM?  Today's showerheads only allow 2.5 GPM max.  How much water do really think you'll use at the same time when you don't have water at a campsite?  I limit water flow as much as possible when using my pump so not to waste water.  I figure the more GPM the faster someone can empty the tank if they aren't conserving water.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2012, 08:32:45 AM »

5 amps at 12V is 60 watts (the RV pump).  10 amps at 120 volts is 1,200 watts (the house hold  pump).  One is much larger than the other...  I too think 5 gpm is overkill and just not required.  Do you really need the ability to use 50 gallons up in two short showers?  Pressure is far more important than flow, and even then 50 PSI is ample.  In fact I carry a 50 psi limiter for pedestal water...

Brian
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 08:36:55 AM by bevans6 » Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
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