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Author Topic: Feedback Requested on Electrical Concept  (Read 2429 times)
robertglines1
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« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2012, 05:58:58 AM »

Guys: I stand corrected on 24volt water pump.  My new lesson for today!  As I don't build to be off grid except on rare occasion I used what was common supply around me. What little I'm off I use the gen set. For me the math isn't there . I do understand your needs and desires to be independent off grid for long periods. Nice about our hobby-----do it your way.    I stand corrected.   Bob
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Jeremy
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« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2012, 06:43:57 AM »

My pump is a Flopump (different to Flojet I think), and I didn't have any trouble finding a 24v version.

I've bought almost everything for my bus from Ebay, and take the approach of starting to look for the things I need long before I need them - which is easy on a project which take as long as ours do. With the exception of my big Heart inverter, I think everything I've bought so far has been new, and without exception, everything has been very cheap - because I'm in no hurry and can wait for the right opportunity to come along. The purpose of me saying this is that, in my experience, 24v stuff is invariably much cheaper than 12v - simply because there is much less demand for 24v stuff on Ebay, and, if you can be bothered to look for them, those '99p start, no bids, ending-at-2am' auctions are just there for the taking.

Jeremy

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« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2012, 06:58:36 AM »

I knew there was something I liked about you Jeremy Grin I walked out of Dana Marine Flea Market, with a refurbished 24V Macerator and water pump for about $60 for the pair.

 I got several brand new 24V items off Ebay for dimes on the dollar.  For the avg person 24V is exotic and scarry. So they go with what they know. Even my inverter was brand new.

 I did not have lots of storage so I had to be careful about what I bought in advance.   JIm
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« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2012, 07:28:35 AM »


Your diagram seems a little unclear as you've connected 115 volts and 24 volts together in some places from what I can tell. 


Damit.  I wanted to dismiss your post b/c I'd never make an idiot mistake like that.  But after a third look, I have the alternator going into the ac input on the inverter.   Shocked

Redoing it with a Xantrex Pathfinder now.
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Michael & Gigi
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Sam 4106
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« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2012, 01:32:03 PM »

Hi Mike,

WOW! Where did you get a Magnum MS4024 inverter for $1750? I just ordered one from Northern Arizona Wind & Sun yesterday for $2000 including free remote control and free shipping for the inverter. I had to pay shipping for the remote and the battery monitor that I also ordered.

Looking at your latest electrical plan I see a few things that I would do differently. I would eliminate the two A/C sub panels and the transfer switch feeding them. I would  connect the sub panel you show after the inverter to the transfer switch that selects between the shore cord and generator. Then there are a couple of options: 1. Put one breaker in for the A/C that you only want to power from the shore cord or generator and one double pole breaker to the inverter. Then from the inverter to the main sub panel with the other A/C breaker and all your other 120 VAC breakers. 2. Put one A/C breaker and breakers for any loads you don't want to power by the inverter in the sub panel supplied from the shore cord/generator transfer switch. Then from a double pole breaker feed the inverter and from the inverter feed the sub panel that powers everything you want the inverter to power without shore/generator available. 

You will probably want to put a 250 amp fuse and shunt for your Trimetric in the cable between the battery bank and inverter along with the disconnect you you show. You may already know this so forgive me if I am being redundant.

Good luck, Sam



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« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2012, 01:53:40 PM »


Your diagram seems a little unclear as you've connected 115 volts and 24 volts together in some places from what I can tell. 


Damit.  I wanted to dismiss your post b/c I'd never make an idiot mistake like that.  But after a third look, I have the alternator going into the ac input on the inverter.   Shocked

You also have a connection between the pilot controlled contactor and 110 volt.  Since the contactor is controlling the 24 volt from the alternator I have no idea why that would connect to 110 volt at all.  The connection from your alternator should go straight to your battery bank, but I think you figured that out.

I would suggest different colors for different voltage on the diagram.  It would help makes things clearer if you post a revised diagram for review.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2012, 02:20:33 PM »

Looking at the origional diagram, you are going to have more excitement than you want.
Take a close look at the connection between the AC generator and the DC Alternator thru the manual control switch, (I see much excitment, not to mention fire and cost)
Of course I might be over looking something here, but as is, it is very scarey, WOW Shocked Shocked
Normal setup would be to tie the DC alternator into a battery bank of some sort, not the AC side.
There are other issues, but this one is a major concern.

What am I missing ?
Dave

« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 02:23:36 PM by wg4t50 » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2012, 02:25:11 PM »


What am I missing ?

You're evidently missing the posts just prior to yours, where that point was being discussed


Jeremy
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robertglines1
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« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2012, 03:27:29 PM »

The best thing he did was put it out here before building. it ! A learning curve is difficult if done by trial and error. I think we all agree on that.  He is a brave man and wise.  My hat off to him.  Really ambitious for first build.  The board wasn't around for my first!   Best wishes...... Bob
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« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2012, 03:33:01 PM »


WOW! Where did you get a Magnum MS4024 inverter for $1750? I just ordered one from Northern Arizona Wind & Sun yesterday for $2000 including free remote control and free shipping for the inverter. I had to pay shipping for the remote and the battery monitor that I also ordered.



I'm ready to pull the trigger on this tomorrow, unless a BusNut tells me not to:

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?BinConfirm&_trksid=p4340.l1356&rev=2&item=310395352617&fromPage=4340&quantity=1&fb=1

-Mike
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Michael & Gigi
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« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2012, 03:36:22 PM »


A learning curve is difficult if done by trial and error. I think we all agree on that. 


Thanks Bob! 

And speaking of that trial and error (particularly the error part), we'll post a video of our plywood and fiberglass sieve holding tank when my ego recovers and when Gigi's done editing out the profanity.
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Michael & Gigi
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« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2012, 04:53:02 PM »

That Magnum is the unit I would go with.  That is the unit I was going to buy when I thought I needed a new inverter.  I suggest using this link instead if anyone wants to look at the Ebay listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/310395352617  The link provided goes to the purchase page for the inverter.

I would suggest contacting Inverter Service Center by phone to see what price they will give you.  www.inverterservicecenter.com  I had contacted them for service for my Prosine 3.0 and they told me Xantrex doesn't provide any way for service centers to fix the Prosine.  They gave me a really good price for the Magnum that was better than their website.  (My buddy managed to fix the transfer relay on my Prosine 3.0 and it still works today.)
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2012, 07:16:51 PM »


I would suggest different colors for different voltage on the diagram.  It would help makes things clearer if you post a revised diagram for review.


How's this, Brian?

"Known Unknowns"




Seems I'm getting closer and learning a lot from the archives and your feedback, which sends me back into the archives and google. 

One thing I've learned is that I'm confused -- after hours of reading and trying -- about the alternating current system.

Here's what I'm trying to do:
  • 1.   Give AC priority to shore power over generator when available.
  • 2.   When on 240 shore power, run one air conditioner off one leg, and
         run the inverter (and 2d air con) off the other leg in order to load
         balance. Or is there a better way with an isolation transformer?
  • 3.   When on 120 shore power, run one air conditioner and the inverter
         through it, and run the other air conditioner through the generator.
  • 4.   When not on shore power, run all air conditioner loads through the
        generator, unless alternator power is available, in which case, run
        forward air conditioner through inverter.
  • 5.   Combine alternator and solar panels when available, or at least give
        priority to the alternator.
  • 6.       Not put my family or our bus at risk of harm.

As always, I appreciate your time and feedback.

-Mike
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Michael & Gigi
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« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2012, 07:48:43 PM »

Most transfer switches unless you build your own will give priority to the generator by default.  Why would you run the generator if you have shore power? 

Where will you be staying in Minnesota?
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2012, 08:02:09 PM »

Most transfer switches unless you build your own will give priority to the generator by default.  Why would you run the generator if you have shore power? 


I agree.  I want to use shore power only, and use the generator only if shore is not available or not enough.

Where will you be staying in Minnesota?

Family farm in Lakeville.  Not far from Minneapolis....
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Michael & Gigi
1978 MCI-5C "Silverliner"
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