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Author Topic: 6V92T- water in oil  (Read 6802 times)
TomC
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« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2012, 08:47:23 AM »

I will say that the cylinder O rings are leaking since it is doing it when cold-course you said that they pressurized the system and did not see them leaking.  It is important to pressurize when the engine is cold since gaps are biggest when cold.  Anyway you look at it, you're going to have to pull the engine apart to find the problem.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Geoff
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« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2012, 09:07:49 AM »

After re-reading this thread I am thinking now it is the water pump with a clogged weep hole.  In any case, I find it hard to believe the shop cannot put enough pressure in the cooling system to find the leak into the oil pan.

P.S.  If the leak only occurs when the engine is hot that might mean a tiny crack that expands with the heat.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 09:17:23 AM by Geoff » Logged

Geoff
'82 RTS AZ
chuckdrum
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« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2012, 09:44:34 PM »

Thanks for the suggestions, Geoff, Tom, and others.  It will be what it is, but at least I have some notion of the possibilities now.

A bit baffled and annoyed that the shop can't figure this out in a more timely manner... they have had it for 10 days and still no definitive answer.  Maybe tomorrow is the day I ask them to just put it back together and I'll find someone else who knows what they're doing.  (unfortunately, the towing fees to Geoff's place would be a bit much!).
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chuckdrum
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« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2012, 12:42:49 PM »

Further update from shop:
Blown head gasket and water o-ring.  They're checking the heads for any possible damage. Quote coming in this afternoon (gulp!). Says it will take 5 days to repair. <insert favorite expletive here>
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Geoff
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« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2012, 12:52:21 PM »

Further update from shop:
Blown head gasket and water o-ring.  They're checking the heads for any possible damage. Quote coming in this afternoon (gulp!). Says it will take 5 days to repair. <insert favorite expletive here>

Yes, I've seen that happen many times, but they should have had coolant pouring out that side of the block with a coolant pressure test.  It is possible that who ever did the last in-frame didn't torque the heads  down to 240-250 which would cause the compression gasket(s) to fail.

--Geoff
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Geoff
'82 RTS AZ
luvrbus
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« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2012, 01:04:10 PM »

Probably the good ole twist and torque method was used and somebody forgot where they were at lol I hate that method the 250 lbs works for me on new or old head bolts
« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 01:06:00 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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chuckdrum
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« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2012, 05:16:54 PM »

Official diagnosis and quote from Pacific Torque:
"We found coolant contamination of the engine oil due to a head gasket failure. Coolant was entering the block from a cylinder head water grommet that failed due to combustion gasses burning it out."

Total (including tax and a transmission service that is due)= $7,202

When I bought this bus, I thought, "Wow, I think he's underpriced this by about $10k!".  Now I know where that $10k is!  And I don't think the PO had any idea this was coming.  He had the completely rebuilt engine installed when he did the conversion, he is meticulous with maintenance, and it has given him essentially zero problems over 94k miles and 13 years.  S*#t happens, eh?
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Geoff
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« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2012, 05:38:33 PM »

S*#t happens, eh?

Yup, when you depend on other people to do the job correctly.  You should NOT have had this failure with the engine!  But that is how it works-- somebody payed full price for an in-frame and got a half-@$# job, it is now out of warranty so you get to eat the bill.  I hope this is the last of your problems.

P.S.  If I were you, I would have the current shop check the torque setting on the other head on the head bolts. Cheap insurance so the other side does not do the same thing.

--Geoff
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Geoff
'82 RTS AZ
chuckdrum
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« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2012, 06:33:17 PM »

Geoff- The PO bought the completely rebuilt 6v92T from Southern Oregon Diesel and had them install it.  I'm sure you guys are more familiar w them than me, but I get the impression they're a reputable outfit, yes?

According to the quote, they're overhauling both heads.  If you take out the tranny servicing and the tax, the diagnosis/parts/labor for the repair comes to about $6,200.  Does that seem reasonable?
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Raymond smith
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« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2012, 07:49:38 PM »

just did ours last summer, same problem coolant in the oil. we diagnosed it by pulling the valve covers,running the garden hose in the rad and looked down the oil drain back holes in the bottom corners of the head with a flashlight.you will see the water running if an o-ring is gone. 300 dollars for a head set and one weekend and we had it fixed with the help of a service manual which i got off ebay for 20 dollars   raymond
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luvrbus
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« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2012, 10:54:16 PM »

A Southern Oregon rebuild you were lucky I saw a 8v92 in a MCI that didn't make it 535 miles home word of advice you better have your guy check the height on the liners David's guy was not very good at doing that if it fit the hole he never checked the height we had a few words over that on a 71 series and they were terrible about leaving the head support brace off the back of the heads 
« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 11:11:05 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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chuckdrum
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« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2012, 11:33:45 AM »

Thanks, lvrbus.  I think I understand what you're saying.  Might I respectfully suggest occasional use of the two keys immediately to the right of the "M" on your keyboard.  Smiley

Pacific Torque responded to my questions about needing to do both heads.  Apparently one had a small crack and they are concerned that the engine overheated significantly at some point.  I have noticed no overheating at all, so it's all a bit baffling still.  I'm pretty diligent about scanning the gauges while driving.  They farm out the machine work on the heads so that's why it will take a few days to complete the repair.

I've never found any reviews of Pacific Torque online.  Anyone have any other experience with them or know of other bus mechanics in the Seattle area?
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lostagain
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« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2012, 11:37:38 AM »

The rare times that Lvrbus uses ponctuation, it must be a typo, LOL.

JC
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JC
Invermere, BC
1977 MC5C, 6V92/HT740
Geoff
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« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2012, 11:47:23 AM »

I was also concerned that "the engine overheated considerably at some point".  The question is, was it before the last inframe, or after.  Your engine may be cooked, which means new piston/liner kits as well as the heads and bearings.  At this point just repairing the heads might be a temporary fix, because if the engine overheated it will have damaged the rings and it won't be long before it loses compression and starts smoking.  Maybe you should call Southern Oregon Diesel and see what they can tell you about the engine when they rebuilt it.  It is very possible that the PO blew a hose and overheated the engine after it was rebuilt.

--Geoff
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Geoff
'82 RTS AZ
chuckdrum
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« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2012, 03:55:17 PM »

Just returned from the shop... feeling much better about Pacific Torque.  They seemed to know what they're doing.  The mechanic even mentioned the liner height issue that luvrbus brought up.  And he said the cylinders look good, so no further damage there.  Thanks again, everyone, for educating me a bit about all this.  Kinda expensive schooling, but good none the less!
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