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Author Topic: Eagle 01 Alternator  (Read 2209 times)
Dreamscape
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« on: November 02, 2006, 06:17:40 PM »

Guys,

I have a question on my 68 Eagle 01, with a DD 8V71. This huge alternator that I have, what is it?  It does not look like the drawing in my manual. It is run off the mitre box.

Is there something more efficient? Mine seems to be not working very good. Is there a voltage relay that is in line?  How do I go about checking the output and what should it be?

Any help along these lines would be great. As we will be driving her to our new home in Abilene Texas in a couple of months.

Thanks,

Paul
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belfert
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« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2006, 06:39:36 PM »

Why do you believe it is not working well?  Is the voltage high/low?  High voltage would generally be a bad regulator.

Brian Elfert
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Dreamscape
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« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2006, 06:55:42 PM »

Low. I checked it a couple of months ago and got around 12.5 volts. Shouldn't it be 13 plus? I am not sure if I checked it properly. Would it be best to test it without a load? In other workds disconnect the output wire.
I am pretty good electrically, just would like to find out the proper way on alternators.

Paul
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pete81eaglefanasty
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« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2006, 06:56:53 PM »

    There is a voltage relay in the rear of the bus in the top left corner, you will have to open the left tail light door. it"s a 6 volt relay.check your ground from the regulator.just below the relay to the left behind the door.also check if your cable off the alternator are good and clean,also your battery ground, or battery cable.


              Pete & jean
               Fantasy
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Dreamscape
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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2006, 07:01:52 PM »

The ground has been cleaned and secured to the frame. The battery wires are new, along with new batteries.
I did not realize the voltage relay was 6 volt. Mine is mounted on the electrical panel on the wall straight ahead in the engine compartment.
How do know if one is bad?

Paul
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Dreamscape
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« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2006, 07:04:53 PM »

I forgot to add, I checked the wires, they looked OK. But I think I need to remove them, clean and replace.
Is the voltage regulator easy to locate for purchase?

Paul
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pete81eaglefanasty
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« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2006, 07:05:34 PM »

   Your voltage should be around 13.7 check it at the regulator. the far right terminal on the reg, should read about 13.7 or so.with the motor runining in high idle with head light's on.
         

             Pete & Jean
              Fantasy
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« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2006, 07:12:36 PM »

   Yes they are easy to find, get it at  Iiternational bus parts   call Steve #1 800 468 5287
 Be sure you need one or just a adjustment. the hole in the center of regular is the adjustment screw.



                   Pete & Jean
                    Fantasy
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Dreamscape
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« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2006, 07:36:59 PM »

If the voltage is low, as in my case. Which way does the screw go CW or CCW?
I will have to wait for the weekend to check it out as it gets dark early here now.
If it is bad, what should I look for? Would the contacts be open or closed during charging, I assume closed. Then I will call International Bus is I find it is bad.

Thanks for the advice!

Paul
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pete81eaglefanasty
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« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2006, 08:10:00 AM »

  If you mean the contacts in the regulator there is none, it's a Pc board. to adjust, turn it CW.


                Pete & Jean
                  Fantasy
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DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2006, 10:10:17 AM »

I question whether there would be a 6 volt relay in a 12 volt system. Anybody know?
Richard

    There is a voltage relay in the rear of the bus in the top left corner, you will have to open the left tail light door. it"s a 6 volt relay.check your ground from the regulator.just below the relay to the left behind the door.also check if your cable off the alternator are good and clean,also your battery ground, or battery cable.


              Pete & jean
               Fantasy
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« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2006, 10:44:22 AM »

  Richard,  Yes there is a 6 volt relay, i don't know were they get the six volts from, but there is one there. i removed mine and rewired it to a 12 volt , I found out that it was keeping the battery on all the time, which killed the battery overnight. the ignition switch gives it the power to pull the relay in. i used a bosch relay 30 amp. other people i've talked to have said it was 6 volts and to hard to find, that's why I redid mine to a 12 volt. when I got my bus the batteries were dead overnight someone removed the relay and socket and they had it jumped out. Now I can leave the batteries switch's on all the time even for months, I know I'm getting away from the original subject but I just wanted to explain myself better, if I can, I hope.


               Pete & Jean
                  Fantasy.
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gus
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« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2006, 08:08:20 PM »

Do not ever run an alternator without a load, that is sudden death. A generator will run with no load with no problem.

The reason a 6V relay is used is so it always has full voltage. If you use a 12V relay and the voltage drops below 12V it may not stay energized.

Electric dash panel gages on older cars used a voltage reducer  so all the gages would always have steady voltage to give accurate readings should the input voltage fluctuate. Most reduced 12V to 5V.

The coil on 12V gasoline engines is actually a 6V.
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Stan
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« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2006, 05:22:32 AM »

A lot of good information that may not be helpful without an answer to your first question. There are several different types and a multitude of ways to connect an alternator.  You say that you don't think your alternator is original equipment so take a picture, get the numbers off it even measure the physical dimensions so that we can try to identify it. How many electrical terminals does it have and what are they marked?

If I knew what kind of alternator you have I might be able to help. You refer to your manual, so I assume that you have the wiring diagram for your bus.
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Dreamscape
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« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2006, 06:40:39 AM »

I am sure it is original equiment. The diagram in the manual just does not look like what I have. I will get all the numbers, size etc. and post them along with more detailed information.

Thanks,

Paul
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DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2006, 07:45:33 AM »

Paul, you need to determine for sure if you have an alternator or a generator. They are absolutely totally different creatures. I suspect that an 01 Eagle would have a generator as opposed to an alternator unless somebody has changed it out at some time for the newer alternator type device.
An easy way to tell is if there is a removable band at the rear and that under the band are some large brushes. If so, then it is a generator.
Richard
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Dreamscape
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« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2006, 09:52:20 AM »

All along I thought it was a generator. My manual says differant. It sure looks like a generator. I will check it out tomorrow, going to a wedding today so I don't have the time, darn. LOL
If indeed it is a generator, what size alternator is best, and I assume I would have to make a bracket to mount to the 8v71 block. Or am I looking for trouble installing one in this old system, making lots of modifications etc..

Paul
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DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2006, 10:46:46 AM »

They look similar. If you actually have to replace it, then you should try and replace it with an alternator.
Richard
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« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2006, 05:08:28 PM »

Quote
The reason a 6V relay is used is so it always has full voltage. If you use a 12V relay and the voltage drops below 12V it may not stay energized.

I am really having trouble coming to grips with this statement.

Typically a 12 volt relay will energize at 10 volts or below and stay energized at 9 volts or less. Since the engine would not crank at a low voltage, then there should always be enough voltage to pull in a control relay if there was enough voltage initially to start the bus. 

A six volt relay subject to a continuous 12 volts or higher, depending on the charge rate, would have a seriously reduced life expectancy.


Quote
Electric dash panel gages on older cars used a voltage reducer  so all the gages would always have steady voltage to give accurate readings should the input voltage fluctuate. Most reduced 12V to 5V.

6 volt ignition systems reduced the voltage to 5 volts thru a dropping network to the instruments. I do not know what the 12 volt systems do.

Quote
The coil on 12V gasoline engines is actually a 6V.

The engine is only started with 12 volts on a 6 volt coil to produce a hotter spark. When the ignition key is in the start position. Once the key is returned to the run position the voltage to the coil is routed thru a dropping resistor to drop the coil input voltage to 6 volts.
At least this is the way I understand it.
Richard
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« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2006, 05:32:40 PM »

Richard: This is part of my reason for asking what kind of an alternator he has. If he is using a DN50 with an R Terminal the relay being discussed is probably the relay that senses output by taking a half wve rectified voltage from the coils before the power diodes. This gives a voltage that is one half the normal output voltage. On an MCI bus this relay is used to interlock the A/C system so that the big motors won't discharge the engine batteries if the alterator is not charging.

This whole thread seems to have a lot of confusion over relays and voltage regulators and alternators and generators. We have to waiit for Dreamscape to come back with more data and then walk him through his wiriing diagram. He says he has good electrical knowledge so it should be easy to get him going on the right track.
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Dreamscape
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« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2006, 09:05:49 AM »

I just tried to post a couple of photos of this topic. I clicked on the image icon, did not have a box to go to "Browse" to upload picture from my computor. All I got was [img] on the page. I even read through help. It shows how to in the Pictures of Buses page, but not in the Post reply page.

What am I doing wrong? I even tried to copy and paste, that did not work either.

Paul
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Dallas
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« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2006, 09:59:03 AM »

I just tried to post a couple of photos of this topic. I clicked on the image icon, did not have a box to go to "Browse" to upload picture from my computor. All I got was [img] on the page. I even read through help. It shows how to in the Pictures of Buses page, but not in the Post reply page.

What am I doing wrong? I even tried to copy and paste, that did not work either.

Paul

Paul, Don't use the image icon. That is for posting a photo that is hosted on another website, not to post a photo on this site.
Instead, go to make your post and when you are done typing, look at the bottom left corner and you will see, "Additional Options" Click on that and you will find the browse button.

IHTH,
Dallas
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Dreamscape
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« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2006, 05:29:23 AM »

I took the pictures yesterday but they were too big to attach. Tried to resize them using Googles Picaso, could not find how to do that. Then I just ran out of time.
I will not be able to get back to it until late this week. A little R and R at Huntington Beach this week with the wife.
Thanks for all the help so far gentlemen Bus Nuts.

Paul
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Dallas
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« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2006, 07:10:04 AM »

I took the pictures yesterday but they were too big to attach. Tried to resize them using Googles Picaso, could not find how to do that. Then I just ran out of time.
I will not be able to get back to it until late this week. A little R and R at Huntington Beach this week with the wife.
Thanks for all the help so far gentlemen Bus Nuts.

Paul


Paul,

If you still need to have more help with resizing or posting, just send the photo's to one of the moderators. We are all willing to help in any way we can.

Dallas
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