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Author Topic: "Run the Rack". 8V71 Tuneup  (Read 3339 times)
Chaz
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« on: November 03, 2006, 10:48:12 AM »

  WOOOW!!!!!!!! I was told by a guy that my injectors could probably stand to be tuned- "run the rack". I could only find one place around here that knew anything about it and it was in Cincinnati. He said it would run about 700.oo plus parts!  OOOOOOoooooooooooooooooo man, that seems a bit "salty"! But what do I know?!?!?!?!?!?! (very dang little!)
 So tell me, does that seem right??? What's your opinions! I want to get the ol' girl running right if I'm going to try to make Jack's Rally. Wink Wink
  Thanx guys,
     Chaz
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kyle4501
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« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2006, 10:54:42 AM »

I've not seen it done, but I have (ole DD mechanic) friends that I trust tell me it is a real tedious job to get everything just right. One said that that is is an art form to set one. $700 does seem a little high tho. Ask Luke @ us coach. I'll bet he can give you a better understanding of what is involved & how to tell if it is needed.
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Chaz
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« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2006, 10:58:03 AM »

Ok, now, I have heard about this Luke several times and I have yet to figure out how to reach him. Can ya hook me up??
  Chaz
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« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2006, 11:12:02 AM »

Chaz,Heree is Luke's #  -Luke at US coach  856-767-4848,great people and good to work with,they are located in Berlin NJ  MIke
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« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2006, 12:45:27 PM »

I'm sorry, Chaz...your profile is full of all sorts of interesting info except for your bus.  Running a rack(s) isn't that difficult depending on the engine and the installation.  Without knowing that it's difficult to make a determination.  You know what your bus and engine combination is...but I sure don't so I can't help.  If you've got Jakes..its a bit more difficult in that you need a couple of special feeler guages.

How about next time you give us a bit more information so we're in a position to help you better?

cordially,

NCbob
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Chaz
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« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2006, 01:29:45 PM »

Thanx Bob. Bad thing about giving you more info is that I am learning as I go. I know very little.  What I can tell you is that it's a 4108 with a 8V71 and an automatic. No jake.
Other than that, I'm not sure what to tell ya. I'm not sure what you mean by "installation".

I didn't know that there was allot more info needed than just that it was an 8V71. Sorry.

Thanx for the help,
    Chaz
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RJ
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« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2006, 09:31:03 PM »

Chaz -

Take a pic of your bus, and replace your avatar pic with your bus's, that will help.

Luke also has a toll-free number: 1-888-262-2434.  Here's the rest:

U S Coach Repair Inc.
127 Cross Keys Rd
Berlin, NJ 08009


Do you have any charter bus outfits near you?  Or transit agencies?  If so, call their maintenance department and ask to talk to the shop foreman.  When you get him on the line, explain that you need help finding a really good Detroit two-stroke technician who can run a rack for you.  Ask him for referrals.

Close to water? An additional source might be marine-related.  Lots of Detroits still plugging away in tugs, fishin' boats, etc.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink 
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« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2006, 11:11:54 PM »

Chaz- Running the rack is just an expression for adjusting the valves and injectors.  If all of your injectors are firing alright, no smoke or missing, basically the mechanic will check the injector height (for proper timing) then adjust the rocker clearance to the injector (it is actuated from the camshaft, just like the valves are).  Running the rack is adjusting the governor control connecting rods to the injectors so they all operate at the same time-mainly are all open at the same time.  Sometimes, it sounds like the engine is running rough at idle, but it should never be adjusted for a smooth idle.  Lastly, is adjusting the valves for proper clearance.  Especially with your setup where the engine is layed over for easy access, this should take about 4 hours-not the $700.00.  Even here in L.A., with $105.00/hr labor, that would be about $420.00.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2006, 06:52:34 AM »

I agree with finding an old DD mechanic to do it for you.

I thought that I could do it myself but was informed by someone on another board that it is best left to experienced hands. If you screw something up it might cost you bigtime. Better off paying a little now than a lot later.

Good Luck,

Paul
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Chaz
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« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2006, 07:01:41 AM »

Russ,
 †I am about an hour to any city. (Indy or Cincy)

Tom,
 †Thanx for the insight! I did call a place and they want me to drive it in and let them hear it. I guess that will be my first step.
 †I know tons of people and have lots of friends but it looks as tho I don't have any connections in the DD world. †Undecided So I guess I may have to go to an actual company to get this done. He said it would take 8 hours at 90 bucks an hour. (ouch) But ya know, if that is what it is to have my bus running right, that is what it will have to be. I love this bus and all it has to offer so I guess ya just gotta grin and bear it. I've wanted one for over 20 years (had small ones) so I am just going to do what I have to do.
 †But, I would just like to say - yet again - Thank you to all those that have helped this newbie with all my questions. I too, love and thrive on helping others and it is greaat to see that there are others out there who also care.

 † Much appreciation,
 † † † †Chaz
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2006, 06:52:03 PM »

I spent $1800. this summer,,,at williams,,,, 6v92ta... I replaced all six injectors?Huh
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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2006, 07:56:07 PM »

Chaz -

A quick search, using "AnyWho" online yellow pages, comes up with 36 charter bus outfits in Indy, and 44 in Cincy.  Didn't even search for the local transit outfits in each town.

Again, might be well worth the time spent on the phone to call the maintenance dept, and you'll save diesel, too!

Oh, and here's something that EVERY busnut should have in their on-board library:

http://www.busride.com/Directory.cfm

Well worth the $25!!!!

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
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Chaz
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« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2006, 08:20:21 AM »

Thanx Russ,
  I didn't even know about that "Anywho" thing. I'm not overly computer literate. I'll check'em out.
  In your opinion, do you think that is the best bus Magazine? Just curious. I just subscribed to Bus Conversions (I think it is)

  Thanx again,
    Chaz
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NewbeeMC9
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« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2006, 08:40:33 AM »

Are there other Mags?

The MAK mag will be the Highlight of your month anyway, it's worth it no matter if there are other mags.
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Chaz
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« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2006, 09:25:37 AM »

Quote
Are there other Mags?

The MAK mag will be the Highlight of your month anyway, it's worth it no matter if there are other mags.
Grin Grin Grin

  I can't wait till I get mine!! I figure I can answer allot of my own questions form mags like that.

      Chaz
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« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2006, 02:53:44 PM »

When I bought my first Bus Conversion subscription I also ordered 2 years of back issues.  Never regretted that decision & I look forward to every new issue.
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« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2006, 06:08:08 PM »

I would go to any lenth io stay away from a DD Dealer. To quote 8 hrs to adjust valves injector height and tighten a few rack screws. My old shade tree DD man who has worked on 2 strokers 45 years tuned my 6V92 in 2hrs and charged me 100 bucks. You would think a certified mechanic could tune one in 4 hours. And as for parts, what parts? 90% of the time they use the same valve cover gaskets.It's sad to hear some of the rip offs to the private owner.
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Chaz
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« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2006, 06:13:59 PM »

Oh man.......... I'm not liking the sound of these posts. The good thing is that the bus "seems" to be running ok, but then, I wouldn't really know. I'm still a rookie. So I guess I have a little time to check things out. But I would like to get it done- if I need to- before the Arcadia rally as i would love to go if things work out. (money, teaching, father, etc)  It sounds fantastic!!! And it would be great to pick up some more ideas before I get too far along and regret it.
  Thanx Guys!
     Chaz
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« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2006, 07:00:14 PM »

Hey Chaz,

You can get past issues from MAK as well.  I picked out issues that had articles that suited my needs.  Talk about Christmas come early.  We got about 20 back issues.  I almost forgot to go to work the next morning.
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RJ
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« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2006, 07:19:37 PM »

Chaz -

Industry mags:  The main one for bus conversions is MAK's.  George Myers also prints quarterly a newsletter-like "Coach Converter's Bulletin" which is helpful, too. 

National Bus Trader, Bus Ride, Metro, etc. are all geared for the actual revenue-service industry, not a lot of help to converters, altho NBT has some conversion related stuff now and then.  OTOH, the Bus Garage Index that I gave you the link to, published by Bus Ride, is well worth the twenty-five bucks, shipping included.

Regarding running the rack.  Again, my point is to call several charter bus companies and try to get a referral to a shop or mechanic.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
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« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2006, 09:24:34 PM »

Running the rack can and is a pain. don't let anyone tell you different. The detroit dealer here is Tulsa Ok gets $800.00 to do it and they are the only folks around here that will even "run the rack"
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« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2006, 03:45:17 AM »

Chaz

Basically  We inspect the whole system fuel crossover lines for leaks and take all off and check out the full travel of all linkages and adjust the timing on injectors and the valve settings this is very important for the life of your engine.

It does take me about 2 - 3 hours average to run the rack a tad longer with jake heads on the engine.

Get a mechanic that knows the engines and the sounds and the problem areas. Experience is the key here it's not a training ground .

LarryH
43 yrs experience
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« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2006, 04:55:00 AM »

LarryH is right. it's not a place to train mechanics. I used to do my own 30 years ago and it would take me 4 to 6 hours. I had another old timer who consistently took 5 to 7 ( he DID spent a lot of time lighting his pipe & telling me what I had done wrong)  but I could tell the difference in an engine that he did verses ones that other mechanics did. By all means, GET REFERENCES!!! And then ask the references WHY they like the mechanic. "He always did a good job cheap" is not good enough.

On the other hand, a passable job is better than running an engine that really needs a tuneup. Itís not rocket science. It just takes some time and attention to detail.
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« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2006, 06:14:40 AM »

 When I do a tune up on a 2 stroke that dosen't seem to have any problems I perform an inspection of ALL the fuel lines, change fuel filters, check and/or adjust the exhaust valves, check and/or adjust injector timing, check and/or adjust the rack timing to make sure the injectors working the same amount. if it has jakes check and adjust them. Also the govenor has to be checked and adjusted and the idle has to be set and the buffer adjusted CORRECTLY. All of this needs to set while the engine is hot and this is a time consuming process. 4 hours or so is about right.

2 cover gaskets or 1 long one if a 6-71
1 governor gasket
2 fuel filters
If it don't need anything else $100 in parts.

Now if it is a poorly running Detroit you will probably have to replace the injectors IF the compression test comes out good. Plus everything I described above. All this needs to be done by an EXPERIENCED 2 stroke guy. Don't trust it to your buddies uncle or sister's husband's cousin that thinks he can do this, UNLESS he works on em for a living. Undecided
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Chaz
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« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2006, 07:02:33 AM »

Thanx guys! I'll check out the back issues of MAK and the Bus Garage. I suppose I can find the topics of old issues on the site.

 Thanx for all the info and suggestions on getting my "rack run". (man, that sounds kinda bad! lol  Wink) There seems to be quite a bit of difference in prices, but I guess it has allot to do with allot of things. I will search around. The only guy i did talk to was "Guess-timating" around 800.oo. I guess better to guess high than low.......... I HOPE!!!  Undecided But that is a reputable diesel service place. I will do the hunting around as some of you have suggested.

  I appreciate all the help, concern and suggestions!
   Chaz
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